Posted on 03/20/2014 9:00:15 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
“Now the LORD had said to Abram: ‘Get out of your country, from your family and from your father’s house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed’” (Gen. 12:1–3, all Scripture quotations are from the New King James Version.). The entire remainder of the Bible after these verses can be viewed as an exposition of God’s fulfillment of the promises contained in this remarkable passage. On this point most Bible scholars agree. What is less unanimous among believers is precisely what those verses actually are predicting. Promises, Promises. These verses enumerate certain promises made to Abram (a.k.a. Abraham), and comprise what is usually referred to as the “Abrahamic Covenant.” The promises pertain, primarily, to some unspecified “blessing” that would be received by Abram and distributed to all other families of the earth through him. Furthermore, there would be “blessings” on those who “bless” Abraham, and all the families of earth would be blessed “in” him. In many subsequent passages, we find a virtual repetition of these themes, often with the addition of new details—especially the important fact that these promises do not pertain so much to Abraham alone as to his “seed” (Gen. 12:7; 13:15f; 15:5, 18; 17:7ff; 21:12). Many newer translations, unhelpfully, paraphrase the word “seed” with the more interpretive “descendants.”
(Excerpt) Read more at equip.org ...
Actually, I am somewhat sympathetic - 'Eretz' is probably what was used, and it can mean a whole lot of things, from 'vicinity' to 'land', to 'the whole land', to 'the whole world'... and it must derive it's meaning from the context - Where I disagree with our FRiend is in the context.
I have never said, or even implied, that the Great Commission was no longer a requirement. If I did, it was purely an accident, because I certainly do not believe that. You must have me confused with someone else.
Or maybe you are still confused about my interpretation of the scriptures. I know you stated falsely in a previous post that I believe the book of the Revelation was fulfilled in 70 AD.
>>>1. What is the church age? <<<
Now and for ever, world without end, throughout all ages.
Understand that there is no such thing in the bible called "church age," that I am aware of. I am simply referring to the existence of the church, and its permanent nature.
Do you think the church (on earth) is for ever?
>>>2. When did it start?
The church was prophesied many times in the old testament. But the first time it was named "church" was in John, if I recall correctly. Maybe it was the time Jesus said that Peter would build his church (or "upon Peter the church would be built;") so I would say, with possible qualifications, it existed, at least in the early part of the book of Acts.
I am quite certain it existed when Paul wrote the Hebrews (and yes, I believe Paul wrote the Hebrews.) Note the present tense in the following passage. Unless I spiritualize the scriptures, and explain away the present tense of "ye are come," that can only mean that new Jerusalem--the church--existed before Paul wrote the book:
"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant…" (Heb 12:22-24 KJV)
>>>3. When did the Mosaic age end?<<<
70 AD, if not before. I have read, somewhere, that it ended on the day Christ was baptized. There are other theories, for example, God left the temple after the vail was rent, so everything after that was simply going through the motions. Jesus implied the land was still holy when the Roman Armies arrived, and John said the holy city would be trampled for forty and two months. But I say 70 AD, just to be conservative.
As before, there is no such thing as the Mosaic Age in the bible. I have named it thus to symbolize the age of Mosaic law.
When do you think the "Mosaic Age" ended?
Philip
>>>Where I disagree with our FRiend is in the context.<<<
Hi, FRiend,
How so, on the context?
Philip
Wasn’t eretz Hebrew for the earth, NT was Greek.
You are correct. The word for "world" in Matthew 24:14, as in "preached in all the world," is:
(3625) oy-kou-men’-ay; feminine participle presumed passive of (3611) (oijke>w) (as noun, by implication of (1093) (gh~)); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially the Roman empire: — earth, world.
The same word is used in Luke 2:1 regarding Caesar taxing "all the world," which must have been the Roman Empire.
Two related verses that use that Greek word are Acts 11:28 (great dearth throughout all the world) and Rom 10:17-18 (words (heard) unto the ends of the world.)
Some of the other verses that use that Greek word are:
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (Rev 3:10)
"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Rev 12:9)
"For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty." (Rev 16:14)
Philip
Right there is your instead of Christ.. Are you ready for his arrival or will you believe him when he claims he is Jesus?
So Abraham is Christian? Right? And to say Abraham is dead is a non-answer, as his soul is still very much alive, as it is Written.
>>>So Abraham is Christian? Right? And to say Abraham is dead is a non-answer, as his soul is still very much alive, as it is Written.<<<
I am unsure what you mean.
>>>Right there is your instead of Christ.. Are you ready for his arrival or will you believe him when he claims he is Jesus?<<<
Maybe I should ask you that. I am expecting Satan to be defeated before the final judgement.
Philip
I forgot to mention that the ministry of Christ occurred in the last days:
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" (Heb 1:1-2 KJV)
When evaluating Genesis 49, note that the lawgiver is Judah, but his seed is Christ. This is the verse:
"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." (Gen 49:10 KJV)
Young's Literal Translation omits the word Shiloh, and adds "seed":
The sceptre turneth not aside from Judah, And a lawgiver from between his feet, Till his Seed come; And his [is] the obedience of peoples." (Gen 49:10 YLT)
But according to Strong's, the word Shiloh is "an epithet of the Messiah." Anyway, when did the "gathering" occur?
I believe it began in the beginning of Christ's ministry. Recall that he said this:
"…I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Mat 15:24 KJV)
And when he sent his disciples out, where did he send them?
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." (Mat 10:5-8 KJV)
Later, around chapter 10 of the book of Acts, the Gentiles were (finally) grafted in to the tree. So, salvation was to the Jew first, then the Gentile, sorta. It was actually to the "house of Israel" first. Jesus had rejoined the Judah and Israel into one:
"I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." (John 10:14-16 KJV)
The "rejoining" of the two "nations" of Israel was prophesied several times: this is from Ezekiel:
"For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day… I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment." (Eze 34:11-12, 16 KJV)
Philip
The Greek “pan” and derivatives can mean, depending on context, a literal “all” or something more like “all kinds of” or “all manner of.” The famous quotation about the love of money being the root of “all” evil uses the latter sense. There are of course evils which have nothing to do with the love of money.
Which one is intended has to be illuminated by a greater context.
There are two rival theories about what has happened to Israel of old. You “pays your money and takes your choice.” But I say Israel hasn’t disappeared, as one would expect if its role had fallen away, and its hardening is only in part and its hardships are not forever.
Obviously Abram - Abraham would be one of those Paul describes in Ephesians 1:4 ... chosen before the 'casting/down-overthrow of the world, is one of the 'elect'. Given that Christ/Emmanuel = God with us dealt directly with Abraham in the example Written of Melchizedek/Melchisedec.
The Promise was given to Abraham and that would be fulfilled down the history of the children of the promise in spite of their forgetfulness. Splitting apart into the House of Israel and House of Judah. Jeremiah 3:8 Part of the punishment to some of the children would be that they would not remember and know who they are. Yet that promise to Abraham would be fulfilled. This nation in part became fulfillment of that promise.
No other nation in history made as part of its founding that only The Creator gives unalienable rights: Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness. That was no accident. But we too have repeated the mistakes of other generations and took on in majority other gods.
To be Christian means that it is in, and only in Christ wherein salvation (life eternal) is offered. And Christ went to all those back to the days of Noah while in the tomb, three days and three nights to offer all of them salvation. IPeter chapters 3 and 4. I have no problem given the parable of the rich man that Abraham followed Christ and is a Christian in his spirit body.
Paul wrote in ICorinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
Genesis 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, "By Myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld they son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy see as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore: and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed My voice."
A quick check of the historical record will demonstrate which nation(s) have fulfilled this promise.
Yes - It's one of the reasons I think the NT was originally Hebrew - If one is sensitive to it, there are many places where the term is ambiguous in the text, where a Greek origination would not have needed to be ambiguous - another word could have been applied. For instance:
Act 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
Act 11:30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.
(e-Sword:KJV)
This passage doesn't make sense - If the whole world was going to have a famine, why send money to Judea? But if the 'whole world' was a mistranslated 'Eretz' it could have just as easily meant 'the whole land' (of Judea or Israel), in which case, having drawn the meaning by way of the context of the sentence, the passage would make better sense, as the men of Antioch are not under the famine, and can afford to send money to those who are.
I know that - Rather, I believe the ministry of Messiah began the last days. Whether that 'ministry' is the ministry proper, or the cross itself, can be debated. Paul and John both declare they are living in the last days.
When evaluating Genesis 49, note that the lawgiver is Judah, but his seed is Christ.
Yes, of course - I have already said the inheritance of Judah winds up in Messiah. But the lion's share, the material 'most' winds up in the children of Joseph - Particularly Ephraim. Understanding that the blessing cannot be transferred to another tribe, how does that wind up in Messiah? It doesn't.
But according to Strong's, the word Shiloh is "an epithet of the Messiah." Anyway, when did the "gathering" occur? I believe it began in the beginning of Christ's ministry. Recall that he said this: "…I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Mat 15:24 KJV)
Yep... you are right on the money so far. In this 'role' He is YHWH remarrying The House of Israel, who had been divorced nearly 1500 years earlier. His death allows him to legally remarry her, which is what Paul is talking about in Romans 7:1-3, and elsewhere. The 'Bride', necessarily must be the House of Israel.
So YES, it 'began to occur' when the disciples were sent forth.
Later, around chapter 10 of the book of Acts, the Gentiles were (finally) grafted in to the tree. So, salvation was to the Jew first, then the Gentile, sorta. It was actually to the "house of Israel" first. Jesus had rejoined the Judah and Israel into one:
There is our disagreement - you are conflating the House of Judah with the House of Israel - Judah was never divorced, hence must necessarily be distinct from Israel.
When Judah lost the ministry, it was given to 'not my people' which is a distinct group, the 'lo ammi' from Hosea - The House of Israel.
'First to the Jew'... The term 'Jew' does not mean 'all of Israel' - It is a shortened epithet of 'Judah' - The House of Judah. Only Judah, part of Benjamin, and part of Levi are 'Jews'. So the ministry of Messiah, the proper ministry itself, was delivered to the Jew first. But Judah rejected it - as was prophesied. THEN the ministry was to be given to 'not my people' - a subset of the out-of-covenant gentiles, which 'not my people' are the House of Israel. The death of Messiah allowed the remarriage... and the House of Israel - Ephraim, the fruitful bough - will inherit the 'gentiles'... the ministry went to them, and through them to all the world.
The "rejoining" of the two "nations" of Israel was prophesied several times: this is from Ezekiel:
I am far more aware of the implications of Ezekiel than you can imagine. But the truth here is that 'the joining of the two sticks' has not happened, even to this day... or rather, the joining cannot even yet be complete, because Judah is joined to no one.
And by the way, getting back to Gen 49... How do the blessings of the other tribes wind up in Messiah... there is only ONE way for that to happen - When Yeshua comes for his bride, he assumes ownership of all that is hers...
You're a welcome addition to the 'it all happened in 70 AD' mantra that is espoused here.
Well, earthly events have a way of aligning to a similar pattern. 70 AD was a telling event, no doubt about it. But this wasn’t the curtain rung down upon the Jewish race. Not by any means!
You and I are not that far apart - the context is the difference. 'The whole world' is certainly bigger than you seem to assume, because the lost tribes that the disciples were sent to were, for the most part, beyond the scope of Rome.
Likewise, I see the 'last days' being a much longer period of time than what you have declared. An in-depth study of 'the last days' shows a near requirement for an extended length of time - I apply the thousand-years-to-a-day thing. I think there are two thousand years in the two last days, followed by the Day of Rest, the thousand year Sabbath reign of Messiah. Four 'days' before Messiah, two 'days' after, and the 'day' of Sabbath.
I agree somewhat. Some tend to make Genesis the cornerstone; and I agree that at one time Genesis was the proverbial "cornerstone." But now we have the new covenant (e.g., the new testament,) and the new cornerstone, Christ. Even Moses gave us the "don't look to me for your salvation" instruction; but rather told us to look to Christ. As far as "first hand" witnessing is concerned: I tend to believe the Holy Ghost was the first-hand witness in all-cases.
>>>Obviously Abram - Abraham would be one of those Paul describes in Ephesians 1:4 ... chosen before the 'casting/down-overthrow of the world, is one of the 'elect'. Given that Christ/Emmanuel = God with us dealt directly with Abraham in the example Written of Melchizedek/Melchisedec.<<<
I am not sure what you are saying, but if you are saying Abraham was one of the elect, I can understand that. But Ephesians 1:4 only deals with the foundation of the world, as spoken of by David in the Psalms: not with its overthrow or casting down; so I am confused. This is the context:
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." (Eph 1:4-12 KJV)
I believe the "us" Paul refers to is the elect, which were all from the house of Israel (I am a Christian of Jewish ancestry; but not part of the elect.) I have said in the past that I believe the elect included the prophets and holy men of old:
"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Mat 8:11-12 KJV)
"There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God." (Luke 13:28-29 KJV)
That phraseology necessarily includes the patriarchs and prophets, unless there is a different name for the elect and the "saved;" though that is not without support. These had to come from somewhere:
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;" (Rev 7:9 KJV)
And, according to Daniel 12:1-2, all in the first resurrection were from Israel; so it is possible those were the righteous from the twelve tribes (and before) that were not part of the elect; whereas the 144,000 were the elect, and therefore the servants of Christ.
>>>The Promise was given to Abraham and that would be fulfilled down the history of the children of the promise in spite of their forgetfulness. Splitting apart into the House of Israel and House of Judah. Jeremiah 3:8 Part of the punishment to some of the children would be that they would not remember and know who they are. Yet that promise to Abraham would be fulfilled. This nation in part became fulfillment of that promise.<<<
I don't understand what you are implying. But I will declare that the seed of Abraham, Jesus Christ, inherited all the promises, exactly as promised to Abraham; and the children of Christ are also the heirs by him, and through him and them are all nations blessed.
>>>No other nation in history made as part of its founding that only The Creator gives unalienable rights: Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness. That was no accident. But we too have repeated the mistakes of other generations and took on in majority other gods.<<<
Now I understand, and I agree. We were blessed as the seed of Abraham when we where a Christian nation. But now that we have allowed Satan's anti-christian influence to overthrow our morals and decency, we are doomed as a nation; unless we repent.
>>>To be Christian means that it is in, and only in Christ wherein salvation (life eternal) is offered. And Christ went to all those back to the days of Noah while in the tomb, three days and three nights to offer all of them salvation. I Peter chapters 3 and 4. I have no problem given the parable of the rich man that Abraham followed Christ and is a Christian in his spirit body.<<<
Neither do I. It is God's Word. I believe he went all the way back to Adam, if you want to get technical. Jesus, himself, declared his vengeance against Jerusalem to be, in part, for the blood of righteous Abel.
>>>Paul wrote in I Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
Genesis 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, "By Myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld they son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy see as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore: and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed My voice."
A quick check of the historical record will demonstrate which nation(s) have fulfilled this promise.<<<
Yes, and it appears all nations have fallen away; and the forces of Satan will dominate until his appointed time.
Philip
I believe Moses put before the children of Israel a blessing and a curse. Maybe there are two sides to the story. No matter, the new covenant states a single seed, Christ, inherited the promises: all of them. I haven't researched whether that is associated with the blessings; but it is also written that God sent Christ to bless Israel. For background, recall that Peter was speaking in the Temple:
"And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you" (Acts 3:12-14 KJV)
It sounds like Peter was speaking to Jews, even though he identified them as men of Israel. I am fairly certain the Jews had Christ killed. Anyway, Peter said this to the same group:
"Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." (Acts 3:25-26 KJV)
Whoa! Doesn't that say that God sent Christ to bless Israel? I thought these tribes were already blessed? Maybe they were cursed. Recall that the Lord sent Elijah (John the Baptist) in what appears to be an attempt to prevent the curse (Mal 4:5-6.) But, Moses, in his prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem, had already foretold the curse:
"Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever. Because thou servedst not the Lord thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things;" (Deu 28:45-47 KJV)
I guess they should have listened to David, too:
"Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands. Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing." (Ps 100:1-2 KJV)
>>>In this 'role' He is YHWH remarrying The House of Israel, who had been divorced nearly 1500 years earlier. His death allows him to legally remarry her, which is what Paul is talking about in Romans 7:1-3, and elsewhere. The 'Bride', necessarily must be the House of Israel.<<<
I do agree that all the elect were from Israel, and that they are servants of Christ in the heavenly realm. I also agree that Israel (apostles and tribes) serves as the "foundations and gates" to the Church. But the Church--the Lamb's bride--includes Jews and Gentiles. These are just a couple of many examples:
"How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:" (Eph 3:3-6 KJV)
"For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." (Eph 2:18-22 KJV)
I guess I don't understand the point you are trying to make, or why.
>>>There is our disagreement - you are conflating the House of Judah with the House of Israel - Judah was never divorced, hence must necessarily be distinct from Israel. When Judah lost the ministry, it was given to 'not my people' which is a distinct group, the 'lo ammi' from Hosea - The House of Israel.<<<
I believe you tried to read too much into what I wrote. In any case, is "lo ammi" the nation referred to in this verse?
"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." (Mat 21:43 KJV)
>>>'First to the Jew'... The term 'Jew' does not mean 'all of Israel' - It is a shortened epithet of 'Judah' - The House of Judah. Only Judah, part of Benjamin, and part of Levi are 'Jews'. So the ministry of Messiah, the proper ministry itself, was delivered to the Jew first. But Judah rejected it - as was prophesied.<<<
All Jews didn't reject Christ, did they? Was it not the leadership that rejected him? And did they really reject the Lord, or did he reject them? And what about Peter's statement to the Jews in Acts 3:25-26 (see above?) Why was Christ sent to bless them?
>>>THEN the ministry was to be given to 'not my people' - a subset of the out-of-covenant gentiles, which 'not my people' are the House of Israel. The death of Messiah allowed the remarriage... and the House of Israel - Ephraim, the fruitful bough - will inherit the 'gentiles'... the ministry went to them, and through them to all the world.<<
So no Jews partook in the ministry or the inheritance? Then why did Christ save the tents of Judah, first?
"The Lord also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah." (Zec 12:7 KJV)
What was the purpose of that? I believe he raised the tents of David so the Gentiles could be saved (Amos 9:11-12; Acts 15:14-17.)
>>>I am far more aware of the implications of Ezekiel than you can imagine. But the truth here is that 'the joining of the two sticks' has not happened, even to this day... or rather, the joining cannot even yet be complete, because Judah is joined to no one.<<<
We will just have to disagree on that one. For the record, which tribes were the disciples and apostles from?
>>>And by the way, getting back to Gen 49... How do the blessings of the other tribes wind up in Messiah... there is only ONE way for that to happen - When Yeshua comes for his bride, he assumes ownership of all that is hers...<<<
He already has. This was present tense when Paul was still alive:
"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel." (Heb 12:22-24 KJV)
That is the only Church I know of; and according to the Revelation, that is the bride of Christ.
Philip
I don't think so: I understand the Word had spread even to Britain. But it doesn't matter what I think. Paul said the gospel had been preached in all the world, and to every creature; and that is the only thing that really matters.
>>>Likewise, I see the 'last days' being a much longer period of time than what you have declared. An in-depth study of 'the last days' shows a near requirement for an extended length of time - I apply the thousand-years-to-a-day thing. I think there are two thousand years in the two last days, followed by the Day of Rest, the thousand year Sabbath reign of Messiah. Four 'days' before Messiah, two 'days' after, and the 'day' of Sabbath.<<<
Wow! I think I will stick to a short period of time. After all, it was the last days for Mosaic Law, which ended with the destruction of Jerusalem. Everything Christ and the apostles said pointed in that direction.
Philip
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.