Posted on 03/20/2014 8:01:21 AM PDT by xzins
Bible prophecy related to the end times mentions many nations, including Libya, Iran, Iraq Ethiopia, and possibly even China and Russia, but not the United States of America. In an article on his blog, Pastor Greg Laurie gives three plausible reasons for the nation's exclusion.
"Where is the United States? Why are we not in the last-days scenario?" asks Laurie, pastor of Harvest Church in Riverside, Calif.
One reason why the United States is not mentioned in Scripture is perhaps because the nation "might be devastated by a nuclear war," the pastor writes. "It is a horrible scenario and one that none of us would want to see, but we cannot rule it out as a possibility."
The threat remains despite the dissolution of the former Soviet Union, Laurie argues. "It could indeed be a rogue terrorist nation with nuclear capabilities, or even a terrorist group that could set off the dominoes falling onto each other. I hope this isn't the case, but we cannot rule it out."
Laurie is for a strong military for that reason. "We need to take seriously any foreign threats. But having said that, what about an internal collapse?"
A second possible reason could be that the U.S. might decline as a world power, Laurie says, quoting Proverbs 14:34, which reads, "Godliness makes a nation great, but sin is a disgrace to any people."
"As our country becomes more and more secular, systematically eliminating God and the Bible from our education system, courts, and the arts, we will begin to reap the inevitable results of sin. We will begin to rot from the inside," the pastor warns. "I think to some degree, we already have [seen that happen] as we have seen the breakdown of the family, rampant crime and so many other problems that have come from disobeying God."
Laurie points out that what once was freedom of religion seems to have now become freedom from religion. "We have succeeded in getting God out of our schools, out of our sporting events, out of our public places and out of our workplaces."
The nation needs to remember that the freedom we enjoy is built on the foundation of absolute truth, he says. "And when you remove that foundation, this freedom actually can turn into anarchy."
A third possibility could be that the U.S. will witness a revival, "which I find a lot more hopeful," Laurie goes on to say. "That is not to say a revival would eliminate us as a world power. But if our nation had a revival, it would affect us. Think about this. Let's say, for example, that one-fourth of all Americans are believers. This would mean that we have approximately 78 million true believers in our country today… When the Rapture of the church takes place, don't you think there would be an impact on the United States…?"
Laurie said we need to, therefore, pray for revival in our country today. "When I say that our nation needs God, I don't mean that we need whatever god everyone happens to believe in," he clarifies. "The only hope for America is when we turn back to the true and living God – the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God who gave us the Bible as the revelation of who he is, the God who loved us so much that he sent his own son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross in our place."
You’ve heard, no doubt, the old adage about “not discussing religion or politics.” The first amendment of the Constitution does not accidentally mention religion first. That is because religion is more than just contentious; it reaches the very soul of a person and speaks of their lostness or their “saved”ness, and with most religions that I know of, that is based on their belief in and adherence to their religion.
So, what does that mean about my wanting to discuss “premillennial” ideas with others who share that same belief? It means that there are others who are DUTY BOUND by their faith to OPPOSE it.
In a religion forum on the web that has always boiled down to “open” threads in which the shouting makes it impossible to have a discussion or it requires the website to enable separating into their various groups so they can have an “in-house” discussion.
Now, to be fair, the Free Republic “open forum” is really not that different. For example, go on there and come across as a true believer in the ideas of Democratic Underground, and you’re going to find yourself on a quick trip to the woodshed and, without repentance, a quick trip out the door.
FR is an unapologetic “conservative” forum. Start spouting liberalism, and you’ll get zotted.
Someone (JR) decided there should be a place where conservatives can gather and discuss ideas.
The Religion Forum acknowledges that conservatives do come in a variety of religious denominations, and because of that it permits the Religion Forum to mirror the FR site itself. Different groups are permitted to go behind closed doors and discuss their own faith.
Also, though, there are many open threads...most of them actually...and they are rough and tumble.
But is a Catholic caucus gathering to discuss Catholic issues without disruption from non-Catholics really different than conservatives gathering to discuss conservative issues? I don’t think it is different.
I would counsel not being too harsh with the Religion Forum. There are good reasons it is the way it is.
Thanks for your posts, but if you would explain them, I’d appreciate it.
The point of a conservative forum is to keep out the riff raff.
Also, it wasn’t “lecturing”; it was sharing a point of view with one who had made comments on the thread regarding the RF rules. I was giving you background and rationale.
Now, the fact that you are a pre-millennialist really has nothing to do with your personal displeasure with the rules of the Religion Forum. So, this was really a side discussion, but it was not one that was anti-premill.
Therefore, I thought it invited a response. If that was not your intent, then please forgive me.
>> “.probably pre-trib” <<
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In a pig’s eye!
The time of the resurrection is stated clearly in several places to be 3.5 years after the abomination, and “at the last trump.” That places it at the end of the trib, and just before Yehova’s wrath begins.
There will be no seven year pact with Israel. If there were, the Psalm 83 attack would certainly be a total violation thereof.
Yehova’s wrath is for ten days, not 3.5 years. His wrath begins at the end of the 3.5 years of the trib. The ten days is the time from Yom Teruah to Yom Kippur.
You haven’t the least idea what FreeRepublic’s ‘ideals’ are.
I’m sure that you’d enjoy the anti-freeper sites immensely.
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A seven year covenant signed with Israel
Daniel 9:27 (NIV)
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.
The Beast violates that 7 year pact at 3.5 years...(at the same time as he kills the 2 witnesses and commits the ‘abomination of desolation).
As for the rapture...It may very well be like you say...with the suffering church having to “slug it out” until the very end. It could be pretrib or post trib. Christ said of his coming, no one would know save the Father in heaven. We know that Christ will come bodily and rule out of Israel for a 1000 years and his saints with him....the rest of it is his secret!
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I did give time to writing a polite reply.
I don’t think anyone screwed up. I think you were unfamiliar with long-established rules and were told that by a moderator.
In my experience, moderators state rules and make rulings; they generally don’t do that introspection and self-recrimination thing.
The only one that can confirm any covenant is Yeshua.
The ‘secrets’ are only to those that will not watch. To them, he will come as a thief in the night.
Revelation 3:
[3] Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
To those that watch and keep his feasts as he demanded, he will come as those feasts dictate. Not secret at all.
1Thessalonians 5:
[1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
[2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Be a Thessalonian, and know when he is coming.
Well if you want to deny the accuracy of the book of Daniel....besides the verse describes the beast’s breaking of that pact, the implication being that the beast had no intentions of keeping peace with Israel anyway. Why do you think they call the Beast...the “Anti-Christ”? He’s all into making promises he never intends or is unable to keep!
Well okay then, according to you the church doesn’t escape
“the wrath to come” and are all dodging hail stones and earth quakes and getting stung by vicious locust like creatures when they are not being hunted down and killed off for not taking the mark. That’s one point of view that certainly has some scripture to back it up.
>> Well okay then, according to you the church doesn’t escape
“the wrath to come” <<
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That is a nonsensical statement.
You fail to see the difference between Satan’s 3.5 year tribulation of the elect, and Yehova’s ten day Wrath that comes immediately thereafter.
You also invent events that cannot even happen.
The giant hailstones are a part of Yehova’s ten day wrath on those that did take the mark. That occurs after the trib is over. The earthquakes “all over the world at once” are at the beginning of the 70th week, and are experienced by all.
None of your mixed up interpretations have any scripture to back them up.
We are given one wake-up event to watch for by Yeshua in Matthew 24: The abomination that begins Satan’s tribulation that we will all go through if we live that long.
We are presently in the 5th seal, and the 6th seal is poised to occur soon. It will be an aerial thermonuclear war against Judah primarily. You won’t want to be in Jerusalem then.
I am disputing the accuracy of your interpretation of Daniel.
Daniel is doing fine IMO.
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Listen there are 3 major points of view when it comes the rapture of the saints and the end all and be all. All have major points of scripture that seem to back them up as well as major issues. I wasn’t attempting to put anything in any chronological order. I’ve read just about every scripture, heard every kind of teaching, regarding prophecy. The major emphasis in my circles and with the preaching I heard growing up has been on a pre-trib rapture(the church is spared all)As I’ve aged and compared and contrasted prophecies from Old Testament to new I’ve become more of a mid to late trib sort of rapture believer.(In my gut I’m closer to your point of view than even you realize) I’m definitely post trib millenialist...the Old Testament is filled with scriptures speaking of the Messiah ruling out of Israel, coupled with what life will be like at that time...obviously a lot of people will be around even after Christ comes to rule with his saints (and they’ll be ruled with that rod of Iron as Revelations says they will). Revelations also speaks of a definite 1000 year reign upon the earth before Satan is loosed for a season.
Now as for the “last trump” I seen raging argument’s over that one as well...one that it refers to one of the jewish feasts coupled the blowing of trumpets but the timing of the last trumpet was indeterminate but you had to be ready for when it did blow so one could worship appropriately...and this has been conflated with the coming of Christ...especially in reference to the Revelation’s 7 angels with the 7 trumpets, then the 7 bowls, then the 7 vial judgments. Could all be true. Mid trib...a lot of things start popping....just sayin’!
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