Posted on 01/08/2014 1:11:34 PM PST by DouglasKC
Jesus Christ's Disciples Understood Him to Be the Creator
When the early followers of Christ say Jesus is the One through whom all things were created, they are clearly saying that Jesus is God.
The book of Hebrews speaks of the Son as the Being through whom God created the worlds (Hebrews 1:2) and who "sustains all things by his powerful word" (verse 3, NRSV). Only God is great enough to do such things.
John confirms that Jesus was the divine Word through whom God created the universe: "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made" (John 1:3; see verses 1-3, 14).
Paul states quite clearly that "God ...created all things through Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 3:9). He elsewhere writes of Jesus: "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:16). He adds in verse 17, "and in Him all things consist."
The Old Testament presents God alone as Creator of the universe (Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 40:25-26, 28). When the early followers of Christ say Jesus is the One through whom all things were created, they are clearly saying that Jesus is God.
Jesus claimed to be all that God is, and the disciples believed and taught it. They understood that Jesus was "the express [exact] image of His [God's] person" (Hebrews 1:3) and "the image of the invisible God" (Colossians 1:15), and that "in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily" (Colossians 2:9, NRSV).
They understood precisely who He was and still is from His own words and actions. There was no question in their minds. They had seen Him prove it time and time again. They would go to their martyrdom firm in this conviction.
You can find a summary of UCG’s beliefs, as well as footnotes STRAIGHT from the UCG’s website, from the helpful folks at CARM:
United Church of God
Friday July 20, 2012
by Matt Slick
Origins: The United Church of God is an offshoot of the Worldwide Church of God. They claim to trace their origins back to the “Church that Jesus founded in the early first century.”2 How this is done is not explained.
Analysis: The United Church of God is a non-Christian cult that denies the Trinity, the true divinity of Christ, and requires both baptism and obedience to the commandments to be saved. It teaches that there is a “God family” of which we can become members through keeping the Law. Jesus is one of two divine beings, the Father being the other. The Holy Spirit is a force, a power, and is not the 3rd person of the Trinity, and it is received only through the laying on of hands by their church members. It also teaches that their members are obligated to keep the Sabbath and must observe seven festivals. They cannot eat unclean meat. This is a false religious system that teaches a false God, false Christ, and false gospel. Stay away from it.
Quotes
God: God consists of two different beings, Father and Son, in a ‘family.’
“...the one God is a family, presently consisting of God the Father and God the Son, Jesus Christ. And God is in the process of adding to the divine family multitudes of others - eventually all human beings who are willing and who faithfully choose to follow God’s way...the Father and Jesus Christ are both God...The real message in these pronouncements is that there is no other God apart from the true God’that is, outside the God family now consisting of two divine Beings, the Father and the Son. In short, the God family alone is God...the true God means the one God family to which others will yet be added.”3
Holy Spirit: The UCOG denies the personhood of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is God’s divine power. “...the Holy Spirit is the very nature, presence and expression of God’s power actively working in His servants...the very essence and life force through which the Father begets human beings as His spiritual children...The Holy Spirit is spoken of in many ways that demonstrate that it is not a divine person.”4
The Holy Spirit is received by the laying on of hands, after being water baptized by immersion.5
Jesus
“Jesus is one of two divine beings”6
“You quote someone who wrote and spoke about Herbert Armstrong. You will find a lot of people in UCG have opinions about Herbert Armstrong or the WorldWide Church of God.”
Not sure what you’re trying to do here, but your website clearly teaches his doctrines, relies heavily on him for their “opinions,” and even uses the same phraseology with similar examples. There is no question that the UCG is an offshoot group from Armstrong. Compare:
“The Hebrew word translated “God” is Elohim—a noun or name, plural in form, but normally singular in grammatical usage. It is the same sort of word as family, church, group—one family consisting of two or more members—one church composed of many members—one group of several persons.
It is referring to precisely the same Persons, making up or composing the one God, as we found in John 1:1—the Word and God—and each of those TWO Persons is GOD. IN OTHER WORDS, GOD IS NOW A FAMILY” (Herbert Armstrong, Mystery of the Ages, Ch.1)
“Elohim is a noun that is plural in form but normally singular in usage—that is, paired with singular verbs—when designating the true God. For a comparable modern expression, consider the term United States. This proper noun is plural in form but singular in usage. It is used with singular verbs.... We should note that since Elohim is the name of the God family, each family member can be called by this name.”
http://www.ucg.org/booklet/who-god/who-was-jesus/plurality-god/
“Again you discounted my statement to basically make up your own statement about what I believe...I believe the Lord does “command” his followers to follow his way of life and his way to happiness...”
IOW, the only thing you disagreed with was the presentation. You still believe that you are commanded to observe Jewish feast days and dietary laws, amongst other things, and, presumably, you agree with the UCG on why. You’re presenting their articles in an ‘Ecumenical’ thread, after all.
“That’s only weird if one isn’t used to looking at the bible to live a Godly life.”
Not eating Bacon does not make you holy.
“Your statement is still 100% NOT true. It’s false. UCG does not teach or suggest what you say. Even IF they did, which they don’t, it’s not what I believe.What you did was to string together somethings and then make an assertion. Assertions are not truth.”
This statement, of itself, is merely an assertion.
Let me ask you...what is your belief and is it built upon scripture or tradition? If it's built upon tradition then we have nothing to discuss. If it's built upon scripture then I'll be glad to contrast what you believe, based on scripture, with what I believe. Fair enough?
Couldn't agree more... :-)
Amen.
bttt
Ah, no.
The author in chapter 5 talks about the elementary principles of Christ. In the first verse of chapter 6 he says:
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ,
He's going to talk about something else now, not the elementary principles of Christ he was talking about before.
Let us go on to perfection...
He's been talking about how the Hebrews are baby like in their understanding...
NOT laying again the the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
He's doesn't want to go over AGAIN the foundational aspects of their faith...he wants to talk about something deeper, that has more spiritual meat.
Like it or not Kevmo, these ARE basic foundational beliefs of Christianity. If whatever church you're associating with doesn't teach them and if you don't do them then you need to ask why that is.
I'm not anti-trinitiarian. I'm pro-bible. The bible shows the Godhead in heaven many many times. Not once is there a person called "the holy spirit" in heaven with the father and son. Do you want me to post scriptures?
Nonsense. Ninety-nine percent of what I believe is the same as Messianic Judaism. Herbert Armstrong didn't invent anything I believe. It's all in the bible. Herbert Armstrong had a great talent for advertising and marketing and was used by God to publicize things like the feasts of the Lord, the 7th day sabbath and other biblical teachings.
Unfortunately, as noted, he allowed, within his organization, the Worldwide Church of God, things to happen that ultimately led to authoritative bullying by certain members of the ministry as well as a tendency to elevate speculation to doctrine. This ultimately led to abuse and failed speculative prophecy.
Again, you're attempting to link two completely different churches separated by structure, legality and philosophy based on nothing more than your insistence that they're one and the same.
“Again you discounted my statement to basically make up your own statement about what I believe...I believe the Lord does “command” his followers to follow his way of life and his way to happiness...” IOW, the only thing you disagreed with was the presentation. You still believe that you are commanded to observe Jewish feast days and dietary laws, amongst other things, and, presumably, you agree with the UCG on why. You’re presenting their articles in an ‘Ecumenical’ thread, after all.
Of course I'm presenting them in an ecumenical thread. If I don't the behavior I encounter is crass, vile, uncivilized and animal like. And they are the feast days of the Lord, Jesus Christ:
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
Lev 23:5In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.
Again, they are the days of the Lord, Jesus Christ. He created them, he kept them, and he keeps them today IF we let him.
“That’s only weird if one isn’t used to looking at the bible to live a Godly life.” Not eating Bacon does not make you holy.
Nothing makes us holy except the indwelling spirit of the Lord. And Jesus don't eat bacon.
“Your statement is still 100% NOT true. It’s false. UCG does not teach or suggest what you say. Even IF they did, which they don’t, it’s not what I believe.What you did was to string together somethings and then make an assertion. Assertions are not truth.” This statement, of itself, is merely an assertion.
No, I made a true statement based on experience, knowledge of what I believe, knowledge of the bible, knowledge of what my church teaches and experience of meeting others NOT of UCG who to me have all the qualifications of the fruit of the spirit. You're statement that I think that only UCG members can be part of God's family is 100% NOT true. Your statement that UCG teaches that ONLY UCG members can be part of God's family is 100% untrue.
Oh, and I don't recall seeing an answer to this. You insisted it was abnormal for me to observe the "lord's supper" exactly as he did....on the Passover. You did so by suggesting that 400 years AFTER the death of Christ that it was being done every day in the traditional church.
Do you observe it every day in accordance with the quote you posted?
No antagonism, but did you mean Deity?
There are plenty of people who believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. However not in the orthodox sense.
So will share:
Colossians 2:8-10 NASB
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;(NASB)
Some versions use Godhead for Deity. Both are correct. It is in Colossians 2:9 where we see the only use of “Theotes” which is Deity. So to say divine is not completing the “story.” Paul was being specific here to the Colossians of the Deity of the Son of God Jesus Christ.
LOL so much for “ecumenical.”
All the usual suspects came on board on cue.
All we need is that fractal gif.
Was that an attempt at a polemic?
Both I guess if I understand the terms correctly...
“Nonsense. Ninety-nine percent of what I believe is the same as Messianic Judaism.”
Only if you’re talking about a fringe group of Armstrongian Messianic Jews who don’t believe the trinity, and believe in works-righteousness, soul-sleep, and adding to the Godhead. And also, if these “Messianic Jews” aren’t actually Jewish, but think they are members of the missing tribes of Israel, and are not Jews at all.
“Unfortunately, as noted, he allowed, within his organization, the Worldwide Church of God, things to happen that ultimately led to authoritative bullying by certain members of the ministry as well as a tendency to elevate speculation to doctrine.”
Something about glass houses and rocks come to mind.
“While United Church of God outwardly gives the appearance of a “nice, friendly, laid back, non-controlling church,” they still use propaganda and psychological manipulation to cause others to come to the conclusion that in order to be “fully committed to God” and to enter into eternal life they must believe and put into practice all that “God’s Church” teaches (i. e., commands), and that they must not ever depart from these teachings (”truths”). Those who join UCG have cut themselves off from former friends and family members (those “in the world”) who do not espouse the same beliefs. Members’ entire lives revolve around “the Church.”
Attendance in UCG dropped from 20,000 to 12,000 as of 2004, and they continue to experience slow growth, even losing members in many areas. Most of their new members have been from those who have exited other “churches of God” (i. e., splinter groups from Worldwide Church of God).
Former members and exiters of UCG have testified of spiritual abuse, suffering and exploitation, and having to go through a very difficult exiting process and recovery.15
Before considering that the United Church of God might be a “good church” to join, and before giving away your time, your money and your life, thoroughly check out the history of UCG, investigate the religious roots of Herbert Armstrong, the roots of HWA’s Worldwide Church of God, and educate yourself on mind control and exploitive groups in society.”
http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/artcls/ucg.htm
A letter sent to ESN:
“Abuses Suffered in United Church of God:
June 30, 2009
My sisters and I were the third generation in our family, on both sides, to attend WCG, so the control goes way back.
After the WCG changes, my family joined United Church of God. But when I was about five, my father stopped going to services, staying home with my little sister instead. The ministers blamed my mother for his absence. Later when they divorced, it was again her fault that she couldn’t keep him. With no husband, my mother could no longer be the stay-at-home mom that she once was. The UCG ministers oversaw every job application she sent in. At times they even prevented her from having well-paying jobs. Finally, she found a job at a hospital under multiple bosses who also attended UCG. Her job made any piece work conversation public knowledge at services. The small amount of money she gained from her job mostly went for tithing. I remember nights where a single box of macaroni and cheese was dinner for four.
Around this time, I broke my back in an accident that UCG claimed was my fault. The ministers suggested that I did not need medical help—not even the back brace. For two months they pestered me daily to be anointed, but offered little information as to what that entailed. After bringing me to tears one day, my mother finally told them to leave and that I did not require their services. With this final statement, ministers and members alike gave us the cold-shoulder when we went to services. I fully believe that God intervened at this time to bring us out of there. Various car and health problems prevented our departure on Saturdays. When we finally left UCG, family members—including both sets of grand parents—had to sneak around the UCG to see us. Mother lost her job at the hospital, but finally got one elsewhere.
I still believe in God, but since have come enjoy His actual teachings.
Thank you. —Child survivor”
http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/letters/ltrs09.htm#Abuses Suffered
Another letter:
“Exiter of UCG Feels Like He is Going Crazy:
October 12, 2004
I would like to know if you could please pray for me. I have come out of the United Church of God and then I went to another independent Church of God and I have left that, too. I feel very confused and I feel like there are like a million things about the Church of God swimming through my head.
I sometimes feel like I am going crazy and I shake at night in bed thinking that maybe I have lost my salvation. I have been given so many “warnings” from others still in the UCG telling me to repent and go back to the “true church.” When I tell them that I no longer believe as they do, they tell me that perhaps I have lost my salvation and God has hardened my heart. They call me because they are “worried about me.” I feel like I never belong anywhere and I can’t seem to be able to not think about my past church life.
I have been told that I am lawless and don’t want to obey God’s commandments and that if I don’t, I will never receive my “ultimate salvation” and be “born again” in the Kingdom of God. I read my Bible and I have church of god theology swimming through my head. I feel like it’s hard to read my Bible and it’s hard to pray because I have so many condemning thoughts in my head. Please pray for me. If God doesn’t help me soon I am going to go nuts. I can’t handle this anymore. I feel cut off from God. I feel it is very hard to go to other churches and to trust people. Thank you for listening. —[name withheld]”
http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/letters/ltrs04.htm#Exiter of UCG
A Freeper has also shared a similar story to these, though involving someone else.
In the Army we would call this roll call stating “all present.”
Matthew 3:13-17 KJV
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.
Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.(KJV)
That could be considered a Trifecta right there.
Note also: He said "us."
That first letter of mental abuse for both the mother and the daughter is just heart-breaking.
Probably no money to be gained through legal action, for it sounded that the family was just scraping by with one box of mac and cheese for dinner.
I think scripture indicates that they have a relationship. For example they said "Let us make man in our image". And Adam and Eve were created...two were created.
In a perfect marriage, two are one. They have one desire, one goal, one aim, they live together in perfect harmony...they are a unit but they have different talents and different roles.
Same with the God the father and Christ. They are one in unity and purpose, yet distinct. The love they have and share is something we can only experience in the smallest of ways, but even that smallness is great.
That's how I picture it at least and it will be a great blessing to see the reality.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.