“What should be different about a Mormon Christmas?” [Why Joseph Smith's birthday! Of course!]

...just one week out of respect for the fulfillment of God's promise to us through the birth of His Son? It's Christmas, people!

Btw, Hoodat, do tell us: Exactly how long have you carried this "issue" of Charles Dickens having three ghosts appear to Ebenezer Christmas Eve overnight into Christmas? I mean, c'mon, here they assess Ebenezer's past, present, and future prospects...and it's not like they held anything back "out of respect for the fulfillment of God's promise to us through the birth of His Son." (Did they?)

I suggest, Hoodat, that you get a contingent of like-minded FREEPERs together -- and then complain vigorously to the publishers of Charles Dickens' book A Christmas Carol.

You then could serve a vital role (you know like the advocates attempting to change the Washington Redskins to the Washington Impeachments or something or other).

Your contingent could suggest that Dickens' book be historically revised -- changing the scene-setting of the book of Christmas to say, Guy Fawkes Night in Great Britain (Nov. 5).

(Of course, the title would then need to be revised, too...to A Guy Fawkes Carol...but, hey, at least you'd then get your revisionistic way!)

Way to protect that Christmas "spirit" from the likes of Charles Dickens!

... you post such crap near Christmas

Btw, Jimbo, do tell us: Exactly how long have you carried this "issue" of Charles Dickens having three ghosts appear to Ebenezer Christmas Eve overnight into Christmas? I mean, c'mon, here they assess Ebenezer's past, present, and future prospects...and it's not like they held anything back "out of respect for the fulfillment of God's promise to us through the birth of His Son." (Did they?)

I suggest, Jim, that you get a contingent of like-minded FREEPERs together -- and then complain vigorously to the publishers of Charles Dickens' book A Christmas Carol.

You then could serve a vital role (you know like the advocates attempting to change the Washington Redskins to the Washington Impeachments or something or other).

Your contingent could suggest that Dickens' book be historically revised -- changing the scene-setting of the book of Christmas to say, Guy Fawkes Night in Great Britain (Nov. 5).

(Of course, the title would then need to be revised, too...to A Guy Fawkes Carol...but, hey, at least you'd then get your revisionistic way!)

Way to protect that Christmas "spirit" from the likes of Charles Dickens!

Yeah ya can bet when Willard drank the booze from his father’s liquor cabinet it was not cheap stuff...

"(Hey, it wasn't original with me..."

Oh don't be modest. If you hadn't posted what you did, I wouldn't be reading the story of the First Vision of Joseph Smith to my Children tonight.

We'll talk about and discuss the need for latter-day prophets and their mission. We'll discuss the truthfulness of the restored gospel.

All because of you. So thank you for reminding us about Dec 23rd and it's importance too.

Well at least he put it in question form...and was multiple choice...most names I might be called here don’t seem to have either of those two accompaniments...Merry CHRISTmas!

{Oh and be sure 2night you highlight THE Latterday Prophet...as focused upon in hebrews 1:1-2}

Did you meet a mean mean man on the internet? Well, you’ve already hollered “Mommy” so let’s see if someone comes with a broom.

They just don’t make little gods the way they used to...

You are truly obsessed.

Still better than a DECEived or DECIEving MORMON!

tyrannis delenda est

And what about False Christs and False doctrine?

What should happen to them?

If you hadn't posted what you did, I wouldn't be reading the story of the First Vision of Joseph Smith to my Children tonight.

And, since you've run your mouth (fingers?) about it; here is the REST of the story(s)...

Version Number When Published Brief Description	Age/Year	Evil Power	Pillar of Light or Fire	Number of Personages	Father	Son	Question: Join What Sect	Remarks
Official Version, Mormon scripture, Pearl of Great Price p. 47, 48, 1974 Ed.	Age 14 1820	Yes	Yes Light	2	Yes	Yes	Join None	Lucy, Hyrum, Samuel, Sopronia Join Presbyterian Church 1820
Paper by Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons March, April 1842	Same as item 1 above
Letter from Joseph Smith to John Wentworth, editor Chicago Democrat 1841 account Published March 1,1842	None given	No	No	2	?	?	No question, told all incorrect	Joseph Smith's First Vision by Milton V. Backman Jr. Bookcraft, Appendix D. Ensign, Jan.1985, p. 16
				Both looked the Same They spoke
Dictated by Joseph Smith, in hand of James Mulholland, 1838	Same as item 1 above, first known account of the official version.							Ensign, Jan. 1985 p. 14
Joseph Smith's diary of 1835, Recorded by Warren Cowdery Nov. 9, 1835, conversation of Joseph Smith with Joshua	Joseph, about 14	No Tongue seemed swollen; heard someone; at first couldn't pray	Yes Fire	One, and then another like unto the first	?	?	No question, told sins are forgiven, Jesus Christ is the Son of God	Joseph Smith's First Vision by Milton V. Backman Jr. Bookcraft, Appendix B
				Second spoke.
				Saw many angels
Messenger & Advocate by Oliver Cowdery supervised by Joseph Smith Feb. 1835 p. 77-79; Also see Dec. 1834 p. 43	Joseph 17 1823	No	Yes	1	No	No	No question told sin are forgiven	Note on pg. 78 that the revival was in 1823 (NOT 1820) so this must be the First Vision.
				Messenger from God
Dictated by Joseph Smith to F. G. Williams Summer to Nov. 1832	Joseph 14 or 16	No	Yes	1	No	Yes	No question, told "None doeth good", sins forgiven	Joseph Smith's First Vision by Milton V. Backman Jr. Bookcraft, Appendix A
				Saw Lord (Jesus) he "spoke"
Written by Joseph Smith, 1832 diary	Joseph 15	No	Yes	1	No	Yes	No question, told sins forgiven all do no good	Ensign, Dec. 1984 pgs. 24-26 Jan. 1985 pg. 11
				Saw the Lord Jesus Christ (said He was crucified)
Early Church leaders B. Young, G. A. Smith, J. Taylor	Joseph 15	No	No	1	No	No	Join None	Journal of Discourses, 2:171; 18:239; 13:77,78; 20:167; 12:333,334
				Saw an angel, and asked the angel

... since you've run your mouth (fingers?)

Here is the earliest account we have:

[Written between 20 July and 27 November 1832: Jessee, Personal Writings: 5-7: Handwriting of Frederick G. Williams, and Joseph Smith]

“A History of the life of Joseph Smith Jr. an account of his marvilous experience and of all the mighty acts which he doeth in the name of Jesus Christ the son of the living God of whom he beareth record and also an account of the rise of the church of Christ in the eve of time according as the Lord brough forth and established by his hand he receiving the testamony from on high secondly the ministering of Angels thirdly the reception of the holy Priesthood by the ministring of Angels to adminster the letter of the Gospel– and the ordinencs, forthly a confirmation and reception of the high Priesthood after the holy order of the son of the living God power and ordinence from on high to preach the Gospel in the administration and demonstration of the spirit the Kees of the Kingdom of God confered upon him and the continuation of the blessings of God to him &c–– The Lord does reveal himself to me. ….

At about the age of twelve years my mind become seriously imprest with regard to the all important concerns for the wellfare of my immortal Soul which led me to searching the scriptures believing as I was taught, that they contained the word of God thus applying myself to them and my intimate acquaintance with those of different denominations led me to marvel excedingly for I discovered that (they did not) of adorn their profession by a holy walk and Godly conversation agreeable to what I found contained in that sacred depository this was a grief to my Soul thus from the age of twelve years to fifteen I pondered many things in my heart concerning the sittuation of the world of mankind the contentions and divisions the wickedness and abominations and the darkness which pervaded the minds of mankind my mind become excedingly distressed for I become convicted of my sins and by searching the scriptures I found that mankind did not come unto the Lord but that they had apostatised from the true and living faith and there was no society or denomination that built upon the gospel of Jesus Christ as recorded in the new testament and I felt to mourn for my own sins and for the sins of the world for I learned in the scriptures that God was the same yesterday today and forever that he was no respecter to persons for he was God ….

Therefore I cried unto the Lord for mercy for there was none else to whom I could go and to obtain mercy and the Lord heard my cry in the wilderness and while in the attitude of calling upon the Lord in the 16th year of my age a piller of light above the brightness of the sun at noon day came down from above and rested upon me and I was filled with the Spirit of God and the Lord opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord and he spake unto me saying Joseph my son Thy Sins are forgiven thee, go thy way walk in my Statutes and keep my commandments behold I am the Lord of glory I was crucifyed for the world that all those who believe on my name may have Eternal life the world lieth in sin and at this time and none doeth good no not one they have turned aside from the Gospel and keep not commandments they draw near to me with their lips while their hearts are far from me and mine anger is kindling against the inhabitants of the earth to visit them according to their ungodliness and to bring to pass that which been spoken by the mouth of the prophets and Apostles behold and lo I come quickly as it is written of me in the cloud in the glory of my Father and my soul was filled with love and for many days I could rejoice with great Joy and the Lord was with me but could find none that would believe the hevnly vision nevertheless I pondered these things in my heart but after many days I fell into transgression and sinned in many things which brought wound upon my soul and there were many things which transpired that cannot be writen and my Fathers family have suffered many persicutions and afflictions and it came to pass when I was seventeen years of age I called again upon the Lord and he shewed unto me a heavenly vision for behold an angel of the Lord came and stood before me and it was by night and he called me by name and he said the Lord had forgiven me my sins and he revealed unto me that in the Town of Manchester Ontario County N.Y., there was plates of gold upon which there was engravings which was engraven by Maroni & his fathers….

He appeared unto me three times in one night and once on the next day”

Why don't you take your name calling some place else.

Yeah; we've noticed you have chosen to IGNORE the words of MORMON leadership found in reply #34.

They just don’t make little gods the way they used to...

I'll bet SP does NOT believe the following Scripture:

The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in ^amarriage; but are appointed angels in ^bheaven, which angels are ministering ^cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are ^aangels of God forever and ever.
18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that ^acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man ^amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and ^beverlasting covenant, and it is ^csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of ^dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ^ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit ^fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s ^gBook of Life, that he shall commit no ^hmurder whereby to shed innocent ⁱblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their ^jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the ^kseeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from ^aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be ^bgods, because they have ^call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my ^alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.
22For ^astrait is the gate, and narrow the ^bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the ^clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that ^awhere I am ye shall be also.
24This is ^aeternal lives—to ^bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath ^csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
25^aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the ^bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they ^creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.

They just don't make little gods the way they used to...

I see the temple garments have undergone a big change too ;)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3087877/posts

"{Oh and be sure 2night you highlight THE Latterday Prophet...as focused upon in hebrews 1:1-2}"

Good idea! Then I can follow it up with the Revelation of John, Rev 11, and Malachi 4:5. I might throw Eph 4:11 in there...but that might be over kill.

Thanks!

LGood idea!

(Except you do know that the Mormon Church hasn't -- yet -- inserted Joseph Smith into the text of Hebrews 1:1-2, right?)

Be sure you get some cinnamon sticks out and apple cider. And when you sing "Oh come, Oh come, Emmanuel" -- skip Joseph Smith as the "rod of Jesse" replacement...comprendre?

Sounds like Joseph had trouble remembering which details he told in which account.

And, hey most of the earliest church members didn't hear about the "first vision" AT ALL...

(Well, hey, the more Moses went to Pharaoh, the more stiff-necked he got...so it doesn’t surprise me to see some Mormons “dig in” and pull out the xtra dosage of Joseph Smith veneration)