Stormy; are you totally ignorant of the FACT that Mormonism teaches that Christ blood is NOT sufficient to cover some sins?
But under certain circumstances there are some serious sins for which the cleansing of Christ does not operate, and the law of God is that men must then have their own blood shed to atone for their sins.... If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone, as far as possible in their behalf.... This doctrine can only be practiced in its fulness in a day when the civil and ecclesiastical laws are administered in the same hands.
-- (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd edition, Bruce R. McConkie, 1966, pages 92-93)
Suppose you found your brother in bed with your wife, and put a javelin through both of them, you would be justified, and they would atone for their sins, and be received into the kingdom of God. I would at once do so in such a case; and under such circumstances, I have no wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands.... There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it; and the judgments of the Almighty will come, sooner or later, and every man and woman will have to atone for breaking their covenants.
--(Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, page 247, spoken by Brigham Young)
I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins. I have seen scores and hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance (in the last resurrection there will be) if their lives had been taken and their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the Almighty, but who are now angels to the devil&. I have known a great many men who left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them, the wickedness and ignorance of the nations forbids this principle's being in full force, but the time will come when the law of God will be in full force.
This is loving our neighbor as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it. Any of you who understand the principles of eternity, if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind.
--(Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, page 220, spoken by Brigham Young)
ALL of Mormonism is a fairy tale!
Good luck!
I'm quite sure you will show the lurkers where to find this in 'scripture'; right?
I guess you are right; for this is SURELY among the half that I do not know!
so Stormy
God comes to Earth, takes on flesh as a human baby named Emmannuel meaning God with us, but according to you He was sinful ???
Is that what you are suggesting ???
God is a sinner ???
The LORD Jesus Christ who has always been God Almighty, was sinless, but somehow needed to be “perfected” ???
Have you ever read the Bible ???
The LORD Jesus Christ who is the Word of God wrote the Bible...
Kid, It might behoove you to read what the LORD Jesus Christ has to say about Himself ...
BTW the Name Jesus, Jeshua, Joshua means SAVIOR, SALVATION...
The LORD Jesus Christ is Salvation Himself...
You shall call Him Jesus for He shall save His people from their sins. Matthew 1:21
He did not need to be saved...
Thats a lie from Hell... The Hell of Mormonism included...
Joes Smith and Briggie Young were evil criminals and liars...
They lied about God because they never knew Him...and didnt care to...His Commandments cramped their Hedonous life styles...
They were opportunists merely out for money, women and power over idiots who believed them...
To get to the afterlife you have to sin, to lie about God ???
To break all 10 of the Commandments of God ???
How sick and unGodly is that ???
I’ll PING some experts in the field of Mormonism to instruct you further, lil grasshopper...
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)
You are subtle, i will say that, but there is a world of difference btwn your Jesus, Spirit and gospel and that of Scripture. 1. Jesus was not the Son of a god who was a man who attained Godhood, nor was Christ a man who did the same, but from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God," (Ps. 90:2) and Christ goings forth have been "from everlasting" as the Word was God. (Jn. 1:1)
2. The Son of God did not have to "work out His own salvation or become perfect in nature in order to gain Heaven or become the atonement for man's sins, but rather He was fit for Heaven at all times, even if He had called down a legion of angels to deliver Him before Calvary. But He became perfect in the sense of experience and accomplishment, including making the atonement, and thus provided eternal life on His expense and righteousness.
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (Hebrews 5:9)
3. Man does not attain salvation because he earned this by keeping the commandments, but instead his faith in the Lord Jesus to save him by His sinless shed blood is counted for righteousness, (Rm. 4:1-8) and the works he does evidences he is saved, yet are not the actual basis for his justification, but the faith behind the works appropriates this.
Christ "became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him" not because works actually save, which would require perfection, but bcz the "obedience of faith" (Rm. 16:26) testifies to true salvific faith, (Heb. 6:9,10) which God in grace also promises to recompense in recognition of what faith effects, (Heb. 10:35) though believers actually deserved the Lake of Fire.
Thus the elect do not work to the saving of the soul, but perseveringly "believe to the saving of the soul" (Heb. 10:38) in actualization, though this means they will follow Christ, and repent when convicted of not doing so.
These and other differences below:
Joseph Smith in contrast with JESUS CHRIST
Would you believe a religion from a man that
1. Claims to have had visitations by God the Father and Jesus Christ His Son, the angel “Moroni,” John the Baptist, the apostles Peter, James and John, plus the Old Testament prophets Moses, Elias and Elijah? (Elias in the New Testament is simply the Greek rendering of Elijah, a fact Joseph Smith was ignorant of).
“Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken? Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD” (Ezek. 13:7, 8).
2. Claimed that the angel “Moroni” (who is nowhere found in the Bible) told him every single church, without exception, and their essential beliefs (which Mormons build upon) were corrupt? (in which case the gates of Hell did prevail against His church, that of born again believers: Mt. 16:18; cf. 1Cor. 12:13).
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” (Gal. 6:8).
3. Wrote the Book of Mormon by hiding an occultic “seer stone” in his hat and dictating words?
“There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD” (Dt. 18:10-12)
4. Writes in the same book a fantastic and detailed tale of an immigration of Hebrews to South America, which supposedly formed a vast society. Later, after a tremendous civil war, one tribe of this fictitious people is said to have migrated to N. America, even to New York. And that Jesus Christ appeared to these Indians after His resurrection in Israel.
For all of which people and events (unlike the Bible) there is no real archaeological evidence (not even for their weapons). In addition, DNA and other scientific evidence actually refutes it, while the Bible makes it clear nothing of this sort took place (we are assured we have the full record of Jesus post resurrection appearances in the Bible, and in which Jesus went up to Heaven from Bethany, not to return until He comes in the clouds: Lk. 24:50; Acts 1:1-11).
God's covenant promised the land of Canaan (where Israel exists) to Abraham and his descendants, not America: “And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God” (Gn. 17:8).
Jesus appeared to His apostles and disciples in Israel (where they could be questioned), not anywhere else: “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren [fellow contemporary Israelites] at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me [the apostle Paul] also, as of one born out of due time: (1Cor. 15:1-8).
5. Claimed that God instituted an Aaronic priesthood through a decedent of Joseph, completely contrary to the express commands of God's Word. Only descendants of Levi could be priests and offer sacrifices, and even the Lord Jesus, while on earth, could not be a Aaronic priest.
“And thou shalt appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall wait on their priest's office: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine” (Num. 3:10-12).
“For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood” (Heb. 7:14).
6. Claimed that he had more knowledge than all lawyers and doctors, and boasted no man (not even the Lord Jesus) ever did such a work as him in building a church? (Mormon “History of the Church,” vol. 5, p.289; vol. 5, p.467; vol. 6, pp.408-9).
6. Instituted a priesthood that can receive revelations (as needed) that add to and contradict the Bible?
7. Taught that polygamy was acceptable to God and even desirable, and that took multiple wives for himself?
8. Taught that God the Father was once a man who achieved Godhood by being obedient to the “god” over Him? (A. of F., p. 132, 430)
9. Taught that God has a physical body and “celestial wives” through whom He begets “spirit children?” (LDS Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 158, 172; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_cosmology#Pre-Mortality)
10. Taught that faithful Mormons will likewise achieve ”godhood,” and can perpetually have spirit children with their wives? (J of D, Vol. 11, p. 269, August 19, 1866)
And founded a religion (Mormonism), which also
11.Taught that black people were cursed with black skin (1 Nephi 12:23; 13:15; 2 Nephi 5:21; 30:6; 3 Nephi 2:14-15) and therefore (until societal pressure brought about a “new revelation” a few years ago) they were excluded from the priesthood? Brigham Young even stated, “If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (March 8, 1863), "The Persecutions of the Saints—Their Loyalty to the Constitution—The Mormon Battalion—The Laws of God Relative to the African Race", in Watt, G.D.; Long, J.V., Journal of Discourses Delivered by President Brigham Young, His Two Counsellors, and the Twelve Apostles, and Others, 10, Liverpool: Daniel H. Wells, 1865, pp. 104–111, http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/u?/JournalOfDiscourses3,4272 .
12. Preaches “another gospel,” “another Jesus,” by “another spirit,” which false gospel the the Holy Spirit of the Bible clearly warns of and condemns? (2Cor. 11:4; cf. Gal. 1:6-9).
13. Teaches we are not saved solely on the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ - on His blood and righteousness - but by obedience to the “Mormon gospel” and Joseph Smith?
14. Teaches we should believe and follow a immoral deceiver, who effectively exalted himself above the Bible and all churches, and who taught a false gospel and multiple fictions, and had a printing press destroyed that would have exposed him (and who soon died shooting back at his enraged killers), rather than turning from sin to God, and trusting directly in the Biblical Lord Jesus Christ, who voluntarily died for us to pay the price for the forgiveness of our sins with His own sinless blood, and rose again in victory?
Indeed he was!
What? Are you claiming that Kolob is full of sinners? And are you claiming that Jesus is a sinner? Really?
ALL: Here is a frank admission from a Mormon. That he thinks Jesus is some kind of a reformed sinner.
That is one of the problems right there! Jesus was talking about Herod, of whom the Pharisees were warning Jesus to flee Jerusalem because Herod was going to kill him. Jesus said to them:
At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you.”
He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’ In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!
So, rather than Jesus saying he had more things to do to "be perfect", he was talking about completing his task, reaching his goal, finish his work, He said he would finish my course, attain completion. Jesus, because He was Almighty God incarnate, was ALREADY sinless, he needed NOTHING in order to be made perfect.
Jesus worked out His own salvation and in so doing He became perfect. But He wasn't born perfect. The choice was His to make.
This is where you prove to not know anything about Jesus and what you think you know about him are fairy tales/made-up Joseph Smith invented fairy tales. Stick to the Bible, the word of God, and you will come to the knowledge of the truth.
Oh just stop, it makes me Ill how the Mormon has to destroy Christ to defend his polytheistic “faith” and all its gods.
This is all so contentious and if some of the things I have bump into are true some here are going to have egg on their faces...
The works of Malachi Martin, and Karen Hudes, whistleblower, and Former Senior Counsel to the World Bank have made some pretty while remarks and if true many good and faith folks as well the church is going to be overwhelm.