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To: Mrs. Don-o

All interesting facts. What should be explored further (IMHO) is the history of celibacy. It should be noted that celibacy is more of a tradition....NOT a doctrine. There is nothing in the Gospels, or the Bible which insists upon priestly celibacy. Celibacy came about 1000 after the founding of the Church. The first 40 popes at least were married men. Celibacy was introduced in the Middle Ages to combat corruption within the Church. Many priests began treating Church property as their own personal property and were leaving it to their children to inherit it. It was thus decided to protect Church property that priests should not be allowed to marry and have their own families.


10 posted on 11/27/2013 7:08:01 AM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Wait a minute here. You’re talking actual Church history and Bible facts?? We won’t have it. No sir. Not about celibacy we won’t.


15 posted on 11/27/2013 7:18:55 AM PST by BipolarBob
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
Dear Trapped, I think your notions about celibacy being favored in order to protect ecclesiastical and monastic estates from being being divided up and passed off in private inhertances is a good point, but even more,the West saw celibacy as a way to avoid all-absorbing political entanglements.

The Church in the West had to wage a protracted struggle against secular power. Bishops and abbots owned estates, whose income constituted the main support of the Church, but as owners of land the realm, there were constantly pressured to become mere vassals to the king and way too enmeshed with the political nobility. (Look up “Investiture Controversy” and you will see that reforming popes struggled AGAINST this for centuries.)

If a bishop had sons and daughters, he’d be even more deeply caught up in dynastic marriage politics: marrying this daughter to that duke, and this son to that princess, and forming alliances with powerful families for all the political/economic/social benefits that would accrue.

Trying to secure the independence of bishops from the temporal Powers That Be was a huge job, it took a millennium to settle and it’s not what I’d call “settled” even yet. But, for many centuries in the history of the Church, marriages would have forced priests and, even more so, bishops and abbots, to become even more deeply enmeshed in securing titles of nobility, access to estates and lands, royal alliances and the rest of it for all their children.

The Church was trying to steer clear of that whole web of worldly entanglements. Celibacy --- the avoidance of ongoing dynastic interconnections --- became an honorable way to secure more political independence from temporal power, and hence more freedom to be “in this world but not of it.”

17 posted on 11/27/2013 7:48:53 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (The obedient are not held captive by the Church: the disobedient are held captive by the world!)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

There is nothing in the Gospels, or the Bible which insists upon priestly celibacy.
____________________________________________________________

There is plenty in the Gospels regarding celibacy. Check our Corinthians 7: 32-35. There are other passages as well.


20 posted on 11/27/2013 8:03:33 AM PST by NotTallTex
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
Celibacy came about 1000 after the founding of the Church. The first 40 popes at least were married men. Celibacy was introduced in the Middle Ages to combat corruption within the Church.

Completely false. Celibacy was the practice in the Latin church from apostolic times. For more information read The Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy by Fr. Christian Cochini, S.J.


21 posted on 11/27/2013 8:05:16 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

How about Paul’s letters to Timothy where he describes the roles of Bishop, Deacon and Presbyter (the name for a priest in those days.)??


24 posted on 11/27/2013 8:28:32 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

All interesting facts. What should be explored further (IMHO) is the history of celibacy.


Which shows that there has always been corruption in the Church, (Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you), if the Church had to pass laws to hold down corruption that could not have been where the kingdom of God was.


34 posted on 11/27/2013 8:56:38 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

“It should be noted that celibacy is more of a tradition....NOT a doctrine.”

Who is claiming it is a doctrine?

“There is nothing in the Gospels, or the Bible which insists upon priestly celibacy.”

Insists? No. Encourages? Yes.

“Celibacy came about 1000 after the founding of the Church.”

No. There has always been some celibate clergy. It was only in the last first millennium that the Roman Church said she would not ordain men unless they were celibate.

“The first 40 popes at least were married men.”

And the practice was to live as brother and sister in many cases if not all.

“Celibacy was introduced in the Middle Ages to combat corruption within the Church.”

That was one reason, but not the only one.

“Many priests began treating Church property as their own personal property and were leaving it to their children to inherit it. It was thus decided to protect Church property that priests should not be allowed to marry and have their own families.”

That was not the only reason. What you are forgetting is that the biggest supporters of clerical celibacy were the monasteries and bishops - all of whom were celibate anyway. They supported it for reasons other than what you have mentioned.


35 posted on 11/27/2013 8:57:15 AM PST by vladimir998
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