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To: chesley
Good! That's right. Gabriel wasn't a fallen angel. Paul wasn't talking about him.

Paul also wasn't talking about Jesus - who was and is truly man, with the marks of nails in his flesh.

So that's two exceptions right off the bat.

But the original posters use of the scripture was excluding all these obvious exceptions. "All have sinned..."

Absurd use of scripture leads to absurd results. So if a piece of scripture seems to be saying something that cannot be true: it isn't. We're just reading it wrong.

Mary is also an obvious exception to the 'all have sinned' line. Remember the words spoken to her by the Angel Gabriel.

Chaire, Kecharitomene

She was Full of Grace. She was without sin.

62 posted on 11/20/2013 8:28:34 AM PST by agere_contra (I once saw a movie where only the police and military had guns. It was called 'Schindler's List'.)
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To: agere_contra
Mary is also an obvious exception to the 'all have sinned' line. Remember the words spoken to her by the Angel Gabriel.

Except that it is never mentioned in Scripture. Did the Holy Spirit drop the ball when He forgot to make that exception?

Or did Paul lie when he said ALL have sinned?

65 posted on 11/20/2013 8:31:45 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: agere_contra

“Mary is also an obvious exception to the ‘all have sinned’ line”

It may be so that she was without sin, but there is nothing at all obvious about it.


71 posted on 11/20/2013 8:58:07 AM PST by chesley
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To: agere_contra; chesley
>> Remember the words spoken to her by the Angel Gabriel.<<

Yes let’s! The words spoken to her were “Greetings you favored with grace”. That same word is used twice in scripture.

Luke 1:28 does use the word kecharitomene, which literally means "one who has been graced" or “I favor, bestow freely on”.

Acts 6:8 refers to Stephen as plErEs charitos, which literally means "full of grace" and just the same as the description used of Jesus in John 1:14.

So if Catholics insist that Mary was sinless because of the use of kecharitomene they must also believe that Stephen was also sinless since the version of the word charitos along with the word plErEs gives Stephen the same “full of grace” as Jesus but does not give that to Mary. And also here.

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

So it would appear that we as well have that same grace. Now before you go and say something like “she was more highly favored” let’s look at the rest of that verse.

Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Blessed among women. Let’s see how that compares to other scripture.

Judges 5:24 Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be,

Jael was called blessed above women. Mary was called blessed among women.

Those words were also spoken of Noah, Moses, and David.

94 posted on 11/20/2013 10:35:51 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: agere_contra; metmom
It is alway important to put verse clippings in context. Romans 3 tell us all of mankind applies here:

21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets— 22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus. 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, 30 since God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised by faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith. 31 Therefore, do we nullify the law through faith? May it never be! But we uphold the law.

108 posted on 11/20/2013 12:30:01 PM PST by redleghunter
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