Posted on 11/13/2013 5:43:01 PM PST by Faith Presses On
The Bible clearly says that women should dress modestly. Why does much of the church in America not follow what the Bible says? (And I'm a woman myself, I should add). It's not so much new believers who dress immodestly who are a concern, but women in leadership.
"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works." (1 Timothy 2:9-10)
Think I’ll catch the rest of it, if it is still on.
“The scriptures are not mish mash
I didn’t say The Scriptures were a mish mash...
I was presented a mish mash however...
A difference perhaps, and not a subtle one...
I think I'm the one that said my hair was 17" long. And I manage to get by on most stuff, including complex engineering and math.
Salvation isn't even that hard, but you haven't talked much about that. I guess you are into stoning people.
If you want to stone me because I have long hair, bring a lunch, because it may take a while. I haven't plowed fields with heifers.
/johnny
You know,
I bet most would not want a bunch of Fishing Union thug fishermen like Peter and his merry band in their church or home either.
I bet they had a vile smell, and rough words.
1 John 2:2 - and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
1 Timothy 2: 5-6 - For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.
Second half just started!
Hint: 'for all have sinned...."
/johnny
How about 16.5 inches? Is that acceptable?
There is much more to this. But many folks are happy, playing at the hem of the garment, and never seeing the whole.
Christ was born, He was killed, He arose.
He did those things for us.
How hard is that?
To focus of length of hair or skirt?
The one thing I see missing from these threads is the story of Salvation.
/johnny
This is just the choir squeaking at each other. It is the kind of discussions that ensure nobody not already part of the club would ever want to apply for membership.
I agree.
I understand disputes among believers, but bottom line? Salvation through Christ.
I won't put on airs because they don't fit me. I am what I am, and it's not pretty, and probably unlawful in several states. But I do know that I'm required to spread the Good Word.
Nitpicking is optional.
/johnny
first, i think your heart is leading you truely.
women in general are in desparate trouble in this society and culture that has become unmoored from God and his Word.
various Christian sects are clearly not immune from that trouble. in my view, the Bible and the Apostle Paul come across crystal clear: clearly a critical sign and effect of that trouble is the pervasive presence of women who are immodest in church and in society. no question about it. and don’t let anyone convince you that immodesty isn’t real. it is.
i say follow your heart and lead whatever of your fellow women who will follow you. God bless.
The Modesty Battle: What is Proper Dress for Christians?
Posted by Don Boys on September 27, 2013
http://donboys.cstnews.com/the-modesty-battle-what-is-proper-dress-for-christians
Is the Modesty Battle a private fight or can anyone jump in? It seems that everyone, even major secular magazines and newspapers are discussing (and cussing) modesty. Who would have thunk it? Jews, Roman Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Fundamentalists and even Evangelicals are talking about modesty. So, I might as well jump in although I know I can’t win. Not too smart!
In a recent speech, former actress Jessica Rey discussed the evolution of the swimsuit and her opinions on modesty and the reaction produced a mini storm. Everyone seems to have an opinion and even their own line of clothes! Even the Mormons have their own line of modest clothing sold in high-end department stores, and the Muslims also have their own line. The Mormons’ dresses are much more stylish than the Muslims since you can’t do much with white sheets dyed black except cut two eye holes in them. With that, voilà, we have a dress!
For many years Roman Catholics, Mormons and Jews have tried to combat the rise in immodest dress. On one of my tours to the Middle East, we stopped for a couple days in Rome and when I took them to the Vatican there was a notice that informed us what was acceptable and unacceptable dress. At other Catholic churches, women were given wraparounds if they wore shorts or scandalous skirts. None of my group was dressed scandalously.
But feminists and many modern Christian leaders argue that the Bible’s demand for modesty refers to display of things such as wealth not seductive clothes. It is both! We should be more concerned with modesty and neatness in our garments than elegance, cost, and fashion.
Sharon Hodde Miller, a doctoral student at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School brazenly said, “A woman’s breasts and buttocks and thighs all proclaim the glory of the Lord.” She said, “Modesty is an orientation of the heart, first and foremost. It begins with putting God first.” She is correct; however, if God is first in one’s life, he or she will seek to glorify God and obey Scriptural commands. If a woman uses her bouncing breasts, swaying buttocks, or exposed flesh to influence men other than her husband, it is very unchristian. It is also a blasphemous use of the female body.
Evangelical and Fundamentalist youth wear shirts declaring “Hottest is Modest” or the reverse although I can’t imagine Christians wearing something like that. Whatever one’s definition of “hottest” it obviously can have a sexual and negative connotation. Why send the wrong message to others? I wonder what parents are doing in the parenting department. Are Christians to be “hot”? That kind of sexual suggestion is not conducive with the body being the Temple of the Holy Spirit. However, we are told to never correct our children since it might stunt their development and they might even throw a hissy. Can’t have that. They also may think they are unloved.
Christians are not to draw attention to self but the Savior. In Matt. 23:5 Christ rebuked the scribes and Pharisees by saying, “But all their works they do for to be seen of men…and enlarge their borders.” “Enlarge their borders” refer to Jews who wore fringes on their robes as commanded in Num. 15:38-39 to remind them of God’s commandments. However, they went beyond God’s command and enlarged them to draw attention to themselves. People dress outrageously and do strange things to their bodies to draw attention or to be “cool” or “trendy.”
Christ’s teaching in Matt. 23 will eliminate seductive clothing, inappropriate clothing, piercings, tattoos, expensive jewelry, green hair, Mohawk haircuts, and pants drooping below the 38th parallel. Christians are not to draw attention to self but to Christ. Believers were called Christians in Antioch because they reminded people of Christ. Many modern Christians remind me of a circus performer. Shocking, shameful, and salacious dress (or activity) will drive people away from Christ not to Him. Just today, a Texas public school district announced that any tattoos must be covered and only ear piercings would be accepted! Any churches doing that?
Modesty should be a byproduct of genuine Christianity although critics confuse modesty with prudery. Prudery is abnormal. Modesty is Christian, common, and commendable. Modest people have respect for their bodies (made in the image of God) and respect for social norms, and respect for other people. Both genders should consider proper dress as a sign of elegance, education, and erudition. A silent statement is made by immodestly dressed people, male and female: “I don’t think much of myself and I don’t expect you to value or respect me either.”
In many churches on Sunday morning, it is almost like a Sunday Morning Slutwalk with bouncing boobs, cavernous cleavage, gyrating hips, skintight pants (male and female), and slit skirts front, back and both sides. It seems tempting, tantalizing, and taunting are part of some modern women’s arsenals. Feminists and others seek to remove all responsibility from women for the reactions they get from men because of seductive clothes while most lusting men put the responsibility for their temptation totally upon the women!
It is normal for men to react to exposed breasts and other parts of the female body. That is the way God made them. It would be abnormal if they did not react to the exposed female body. However, men are responsible for their own impure, illegal and iniquitous actions. Moreover, attraction is not lust but it often ends in lust.
Men like to see skin but how much skin is permitted? Some Muslims cover their entire bodies, even their eyes! That might be considered going far past modesty to prudery.
The absence of modesty among females is an egregious problem, but I must emphatically state that however wickedly they dress, it does not relieve men of their own actions. While lust is natural, it is naturally sinful. It dehumanizes the female and a man takes her for himself (at least mentally) often to prove superiority over her as well as to satisfy personal cravings.
Christians should ask themselves not only what is acceptable but what is appropriate for each occasion. It is a joy to meet a person with a happy smile, pure heart, and noble intentions who is modest, kind, humble, and genuine. Not many out there!
Moreover, I’ll be considered naïve and self-righteous for even suggesting they should be out there!
Copyright 2013, Don Boys, Ph.D.
As with all Scripture, we can discover God's instruction by looking at the context, the times, the people, the customs as well as the spirit behind passages like this one. Paul was not saying women shouldn't braid their hair or wear jewelry or nice clothing, just that we must let our character, good works and holiness shine through and not allow how we look to be the only way people view us. In Paul's day, it was the prostitutes who "dressed up" all flashy and calling attention to her looks. Christian women SHOULD be distinguishable from hookers, right? We must set examples for what is acceptable.
I agree that these days far too many women and girls look to Hollywood and the music scene to model their looks on and this should definitely NOT be who believers in Christ should look to to determine what is "proper". These fashions have objectified women and taken away her dignity and innate modesty. In the church, we are compelled by Christ to:
Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance. Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God. (Titus 2:2-5)
Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things. (I Tim. 3:10,11)
These are traits that each woman must invest in to become the woman God has created her to be and that when the "world" looks at her, they see a confident, strong, self-assured, dignified and modest person who projects a character based on her intrinsic worth and value to God instead of an outward and fleeting rating from them.
Well stated and a good rule of thumb.
You are a man of all seasons:) I remember sitting in Saturday evening mass listening to my mother comment on how the young women dressed. I remember hearing stuff like “if she leans over anymore she is going to fall out of that blouse. So your point is valid.
I’ll add this to the mix...
Sex is for a married man and woman.
No woman(or man) should be taking what is for their spouse and flaunting it for other members of the opposite sex to speculate on or lust after.
The only person who I am free to be sexually suggestive for is my husband. It is irresponsible on my part to present myself in a way that entices any other man to think that way of me.
Now, of course I realize that even in a burka, some men will think that way because that’s just the way they are, but just because some men are that way, does not justify a woman from dressing to cause lust and then blaming the man for lusting.
If a man is going to think that way about me, it’s NOT going to be because I did anything to encourage it. It will remain HIS responsibility, not mine.
Any woman who dresses inappropriately bears some responsibility for the man’s reaction. She’s doing it to elicit a reaction so that makes her culpable.
I immediately remembered where Paul said that women should have their heads covered in church. I guess even the conservative Southern Baptists don’t keep that requirement.
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
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