Posted on 11/07/2013 10:07:49 PM PST by RBStealth
The Reformation isn’t over. But Protestantism is, or should be.
When I studied at Cambridge, I discovered that English Evangelicals define themselves over against the Church of England. Whatever the C of E is, they ain’t. What I’m calling “Protestantism” does the same with Roman Catholicism. Protestantism is a negative theology; a Protestant is a not-Catholic. Whatever Catholics say or do, the Protestant does and says as close to the opposite as he can.
Mainline churches are nearly bereft of “Protestants.” If you want to spot one these days, your best bet is to visit the local Baptist or Bible church, though you can find plenty of Protestants among conservative Presbyterians too.
Protestantism ought to give way to Reformational catholicism. Like a Protestant, a Reformational catholic rejects papal claims, refuses to venerate the Host, and doesn’t pray to Mary or the saints; he insists that salvation is a sheer gift of God received by faith and confesses that all tradition must be judged by Scripture, the Spirit’s voice in the conversation that is the Church.
(Excerpt) Read more at firstthings.com ...
When I studied at Cambridge...
Looks like SOMEONE missed the Wheat and Tares lesson!
And, it appears, neither is the COUNTER Reformation!
I just LOVE the smell of heresy in the morning!!!
They are rowing down a stream with much deception.
excellent links. thanks Salvation.
And see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3072978/posts?page=1825#1825 and here: http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/some-questions-for-pete-enns/#comment-51994.
I spent 25 years in the military. When a commanding officer gives you an order, he doesn't say, "As a fellow fighter pilot and soldier, because I also serve our country, do XYZ". He says, "As your Commander...."
If Peter was the "Vicar of Christ", or the Elder of Elders, that would have been a great time to mention it. Something along the lines of, "Since Jesus Himself made me His Vicar, I charge you..."
It is kind of like Purgatory. In all those exhortations to behave well and give up sinning, one would expect SOMEONE to have written, "Don't you realize Purgatory awaits those Christians who sin? Don't you realize that with every sin, you build up temporal punishment and will burn for many hundreds of years more...unless you receive an indulgence from Peter?"
Or as redleghunter pointed out, if the Apostles believed in transubstantiation, then when they exhorted the Corinthians to treat the Lords Supper more seriously, wouldn't Paul have written, "The Lord's Supper is a perpetual sacrifice of Jesus, literally his own flesh and blood, being offered again and again in a timeless sacrifice by the priests I ordained!"?
Sometimes, what scripture DOESN'T say is important. And we reject transubstantiation, purgatory, and christian priests and the pope, not because we want to be different from the Catholic Church, but because the SCRIPTURE is different from the Catholic Church.
We are not trying to walk away from the Catholic Church, but to walk TO the Word of God. It just happens that those two are often the same thing...
You read what the earliest Church fathers thought about Peter, yet you disbelieve. Amazing.
To quote an Elvis fan.
“A billion Catholics can’t be wrong”.
The Catholic Church, The One, True, Apostolic Church, started by Christ himself, with an unbroken line of apostolic succession starting with Peter, right on up to Francis.
There is no way for protestants to deny the truth. Catholic Doctrine is Truth. The Word of God. You can’t change the truth. Resistance is futile.
thank you.
“You read what the earliest Church fathers thought about Peter, yet you disbelieve.”
I read what the Apostle Peter wrote about himself, and what Paul wrote about Peter in scripture, and discount the words of men writing hundreds of years later. Why? Because the scripture is the Word of God, and it seems God did not set Peter above all the others as Vicar.
Had God wanted to do so, it would have been simple. After the resurrection, Jesus could have said to Peter, “You are my Vicar...” but instead, Jesus spoke of sending the Holy Spirit, and the scripture plainly shows the Holy Spirit directing the Apostles and the Church. Not Peter.
So if I want to follow the Word of God, I consider Peter to be “a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed”. Or I remember the rebuke Paul gave Peter in Galatians, and conclude Peter was not supreme over the Apostles, but “a fellow elder”.
“The book of Acts records that the Jerusalem Council was presided over not by Peter, but by Jesus’ brother James. Peter was sent by the Church along with John on a mission to Syria, an unlikely event if Peter was the defacto leader; while in one of the most dramatic events of the apostolic era, Paul actually rebuked Peter at Antioch for behaviour which was compromising the truth of the gospel (Gal. 2:11-14). Paul was responsible for establishing churches and setting up their ruling organizations across Europe and Asia Minor, but he says absolutely nothing in any of his epistles about the need to be in submission to Peter as the supreme head of the Church. In fact, Paul regarded himself as personally responsible for overseeing, guiding and protecting these fledgling believers. He considered himself to be on an equal plane with all the other apostles (2 Cor 12:11) — he was the apostle to the Gentiles while Peter was the apostle to the Jews. Paul operated independently and on his own authority, as opposed to being under the authority of Peter.”
http://www.the-highway.com/papacy_Webster.html
Please note that I reject Peter as the Vicar of Christ because that is how scripture treats him. No one reading scripture would conclude Peter had a position of authority over the other Apostles. To believe it, you must first listen to man instead of God, and give weight to men writing hundreds of years later and whose power required that Peter be ‘the first Pope’.
You might as well ask me to take the word of John McCain or Barry Obama over that of the Word of God...
bump
Not so amazing
Papal power was gradually developed by deceit and forgeries. The Donation of Constantine, a proven forgery, was used by the papacy to establish its base in Rome. The pseudo Isidorian Decretals (of French origin) consisted of 115 documents, purportedly written by early bishops of Rome, beginning with Clement (88-97) along with the pseudo-Clementine letters and homilies (invented by a heretic in the second century...professed to be from the hand of Clemens Romanus, who writes to James after the death of Peter, "...appointing the writer his successor....") were instrumental in convincing the people they were the true successors of Peter. Tertullian repeated the story that Clement was ordained Bishop of Rome by St. Peter. In the Secrets of Romanism, by former priest Zachello, page 46, we read: the rest of the story
Thanks excellent comments and sources.
To deny the Catholic Church, the institution that gave you the Bible, is to deny Christ himself. It is sad that protestants have been programed from birth to hate the real Word of God, which is the Catholic Church. Deny the truth all you want, but God says if you know truth and you turn away from it, you will not enter into his Kingdom. May God have mercy on your souls.
The real Word of God, the Catholic Church??? That is Satanic...That is from the father of lies...Get thee behind me Satan...
Ping
“The real Word of God, the Catholic Church??? That is Satanic...That is from the father of lies...Get thee behind me Satan..”
Heresy.
A billion Muslims certainly are! I'd be careful with using numbers to prove stuff - especially when Jesus, Himself, said "Few there be that find it (the path to heaven).".
Heresy.
Joh_1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Oh, no doubt that I'm heretical to the Catholic religion but that's fine with me to be a heretic to Satan's Masterpiece, the Catholic religion...
The Catholic Church is God, eh???
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