Posted on 10/31/2013 3:38:03 AM PDT by rhema
(I received this the other day. It's written by Pastor Tom Brock) -
Today I walked through my old alma mater, Luther Theological Seminary in St Paul, Mn. It is known as probably the most conservative of the ELCA seminaries. You wouldn’t know it from the number of gay/lesbian bumper stickers in the parking lot. Upon entering the main building a sign was up promoting a new book at Luther’s Bookstore, “Pastrix” by ELCA Pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber. She was a favorite speaker at the ELCA Youth Assembly and a few months ago spoke at the historic Central Lutheran Church in downtown Minneapolis—using the “f” word in her speech. I flipped through her new book and she repeatedly uses the “f” word, referring to the 12 disciples as a “bunch of “f” ups”. Former ELCA Head Bishop Mark Hanson praises the book on the dustcover. Even more disturbing is that Bolz-Weber in a sermon on Christ the King Sunday denied that Christ died in our place to pay for our sins. To quote:
And just to be clear: The cross is not about God as divine child abuser sadly sending his little boy off to be killed because we were bad and well, somebody had to pay.
Can someone deny the things of “first importance” as Paul puts it in I Corinthians 15:3, and still be a Christian? Yet she is a favorite speaker at ELCA events.
This attack on Christ’s substitutionary atonement is also going on at the ELCA’s Wartburg Seminary. Professor of New Testament David Lull wrote this:
" . . .I can’t get past the idea that God had a thirst for innocent blood that had to be quenched, or that God’s justice required a death-penalty for sinners until Jesus’ death satisfied God’s wrath. Even if Bible passages can be made to support these ideas, I can’t get past the idea that God had been unforgiving before Jesus died. That’s not the God I find in the Bible."
“Even if” the Bible teaches it, Professor Lull rejects it.
So now the day has come that the ELCA allows pastors and professors to deny the central teaching of the Christian faith: that sinless Jesus Christ died in our place to pay for our sins so that we could receive the forgiveness of God.
Like I said, a very sad day walking through Luther Seminary.
I’m sorry the Evangelical Lutheran Church has fallen so far. I’ve had many wonderful neighbors and friends over the years who were devout members of our local ELCA congregation. Sadly, many of them have died or moved away and I don’t know if those ones have switched churches (as I suspect they have).
“I didn’t leave the Lutheran Church, the Lutheran Church left me.”
Please note that the views of the ELCA are NOT shared with either the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod or the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.
I seem to recall someone who wrote a really HILARIOUS parody song to the tune of “Y.M.C.A.” called “E.L.C.A.”
I’m in the same boat, I have a neighbor that is still a member of an ELCA Church. I have actually been to that Church a few times, this guy was touring who could recite the whole book of Mark, I went to see him, that was one of the times.
I wonder if there is an autonomous nature to some of the Churches because from what I have seen, they didn’t seem too bad; I wouldn’t know to think, ELCA Church, Liberal. It didn’t jump out at me but maybe that is how it is.
If I were a Lutheran, I’d go to WELS probably. I’m under the impression that a smaller Lutheran denomination, CLBA, Church of the Lutheran Brethren Association is also Orthodox and as I said, some of these actually predate and became a member under the umbrella of the Lutheran Church of America, a sort of affiliation of all the Lutheran Churches.
I’m sorry the Evangelical Lutheran Church has fallen so far.
The Evangelical Lutheran Church still exists wherever God’s Word is being taught in its truth and purity and the Sacraments are being rightly administered—for right now that would be the LCMS and WELS. Not ELCA.
(Please note that this post was written by Conservaliberty’s husband who is an LCMS pastor.)
The reason we left the ELCA is their support, regardless of the amount, of Re-Imagining Workshops. One speaker was quoted to say that something like ‘we don’t need the blood of Jesus or him hanging on a cross’; used milk and honey for communion which symbolized the fluids from a woman’s body and worshiped a female goddess symbol named Sophia which they claimed was in the Bible. As sad as it is, I am not surprised at what you found in your seminary.
Non-denominational and independent churches are not immune. If anything they are more vulnerable. All it takes is one event to utterly cloud the judgement of the pastoral staff. One Sunday orthodox, the next lurching toward universalism under the rainbow flag with many a "Kumbiyah" besides. I've seen this with my own eyes, twice now.
And even the Catholic church is not immune. In some ways it mirrors the non-denoms...under Benedict 16 the RCC thundered forth with a refreshing orthodoxy and clarity. Under Francis I, well, you figure out what the church is now saying. To me it sounds rather Episcopal. And that is dismaying.
Many are coming back to Catholicism because it has not lost it way.
The Catholic Church was the first (and is still standing) against abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality and same-sex marriage, contraception, embryonic stem cell research and on and on.
No other church can make this nearly 2000 year old claim.
Many are coming back to Catholicism because it has not lost it way.
The Catholic Church was the first (and is still standing) against abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality and same-sex marriage, contraception, embryonic stem cell research and on and on.
No other church can make this nearly 2000 year old claim.
We left the ELCA and swam the Tiber to Rome 19 years ago. What a beautiful home we have found!
They are now an atheistic cult. That is all.
It starts with incremental slights to Scriptural authority, like allowing women as clergy. After that barrier is breached, it is always down hill into the abyss - every time.
Pastor Brock writes on his website [ pastorsstudy.org ]:". . . On October 20th, I will preach on Minneapolis TV a program entitled “God’s Three-fold Cure for America” (you can watch it on our website at pastorsstudy.org soon). In it I state that in my 60 years of life I have never seen America go downhill so fast as I have this past year. Then I preach on the three-fold cure from 2 Chronicles 7:14:
1. God’s people (the Church!) must humble itself
2. The Church must pray
3. We must turn from wickedness
Then, and only then, does 2 Chronicles promise God will heal our land.
This is not necessarily in error, but is inaccurate. Our language has been sullied by the godless Left, and what used to have clear mean has now been perverted to their own ends.
Point 1 - Fake homo-ficated "church" members would heartily agree that biblical Christians should "humble" themselves by capitulating on the new, perverted doctrine of homosexual acceptance. Now, "humble" has been revised.
Point 2 - Of course the sodomite church invaders would encourage everyone to pray. But prayer can be WRONG on so many occasions for so many reasons. There are times that God told his people to get off their knees and REPENT.
Point 3 - "We must turn from wickedness." Again, the homo-Left has completely turned around morality, calling "good evil, and evil good," so such an admonition is almost rendered meaningless.
The last sentence refers only to God's chosen nation, Israel. Although the principles of blessing apply to any group of people who will recognize His Authority of their lives, the promise to "heal their land" is to Israel solely.
“Having been raised in what became an ELCA church, their apostasy has left me embittered towards them, but not nearly as embittered as they seem to be towards the Bible. This denomination can’t run out of self-delusional old peoples’ money soon enough.”
I couldn’t agree more. I grew up in the ELCA church, and have since, in my adulthood, come to an understanding of the saving grace of the cross. My parents both continue to attend the ELCA church. But to hear them tell it, church attendance sounds more like a social experience with a “feel good” message thrown in to boost the congregation’s self esteem. I can also remember my shock at hearing my dad speak about attending college courses at Concordia in Moorhead back in the late 1950’s—even then they were teaching that the Bible was merely a “book full of stories and good ideas on how we should live our lives, but not the divinely inspired word of God.” It’s no wonder that this denomination feels free, then, to pick and choose which portions of the Bible they should honor.
..our dear pastor was a graduate of Wheaton College.....no liberalism here!---- the worst we argued about was the color of the hymnals!
...but after 12 years there, this church too came under the umbrella of the ELCA and that was that....:(
..the pastor retired....we found a PCA Presbyterian and moved on.
Indeed!...incremental
Do either of these groups endorse or ordain women?
If they do, then they are well down the road of apostasy already.
No.
For your information, Michelle Bachmann grew up Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, she’s pretty conservative and smart. Big differences with these denonimations. The answer to your question is not just no but....
ELCA has committed suicide. It may be waning, and its death kick may not come for awhile, but it is already dead to me.
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