Posted on 10/26/2013 6:56:10 AM PDT by NYer
There are 38 questions + a few bonus questions. I have split them into two separate posts of 20 and 18 + bonus questions. Are you ready?
1. Where did Jesus give instructions that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book?
2. Other than the specific command to John to pen the Revelation, where did Jesus tell His apostles to write anything down and compile it into an authoritative book?
3. Where in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based solely on a book?
4. Some Protestants claim that Jesus condemned all oral tradition (e.g., Matt 15:3, 6; Mark 7:813). If so, why does He bind His listeners to oral tradition by telling them to obey the scribes and Pharisees when they “sit on Moses’ seat” (Matt 23:2)?
5. Some Protestants claim that St. Paul condemned all oral tradition (Col 2:8). If so, why does he tell the Thessalonians to “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thes 2:15) and praises the Corinthians because they “hold firmly to the traditions” (1 Cor 11:2)?
(And why does the Protestant NIV change the word “tradition” to “teaching”?)
6. If the authors of the New Testament believed in sola Scriptura, why did they sometimes draw on oral Tradition as authoritative and as God’s Word (Matt 2:23; 23:2; 1 Cor 10:4; 1 Pet 3:19; Jude 9, 14 15)?
7. Where in the Bible is God’s Word restricted only to what is written down?
8. How do we know who wrote the books that we call Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Hebrews, and 1, 2, and 3 John?
9. On what authority, or on what principle, would we accept as Scripture books that we know were not written by one of the twelve apostles?
10. Where in the Bible do we find an inspired and infallible list of books that should belong in the Bible? (e.g., Is the Bible’s Table of Contents inspired?)
11. How do we know, from the Bible alone, that the individual books of the New Testament are inspired, even when they make no claim to be inspired?
12. How do we know, from the Bible alone, that the letters of St. Paul, who wrote to first- century congregations and individuals, are meant to be read by us as Scripture 2000 years later?
13. Where does the Bible claim to be the sole authority for Christians in matters of faith and morals?
14. Most of the books of the New Testament were written to address very specific problems in the early Church, and none of them are a systematic presentation of Christian faith and theology. On what biblical basis do Protestants think that everything that the apostles taught is captured in the New Testament writings?
15. If the books of the New Testament are “self-authenticating” through the ministry of the Holy Spirit to each individual, then why was there confusion in the early Church over which books were inspired, with some books being rejected by the majority?
16. If the meaning of the Bible is so clear—so easily interpreted—and if the Holy Spirit leads every Christian to interpret it for themselves, then why are there over 33,000 Protestant denominations, and millions of individual Protestants, all interpreting the Bible differently?
17. Who may authoritatively arbitrate between Christians who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit into mutually contradictory interpretations of the Bible?
18. Since each Protestant must admit that his or her interpretation is fallible, how can any Protestant in good conscience call anything heresy or bind another Christian to a particular belief?
19. Protestants usually claim that they all agree “on the important things.” Who is able to decide authoritatively what is important in the Christian faith and what is not?
20. How did the early Church evangelize and overthrow the Roman Empire, survive and prosper almost 350 years, without knowing for sure which books belong in the canon of Scripture?
I believe that should have answered it.
OK, OK, we get it. You don’t respect Scripture. You’ve made your point very clear that you have little regard for Scripture. Indeed, you’ve made 20 points that you have little regard for Scripture.
Steve Ray is not an attorney.
Reminds me of some of the Mega Churches.
Wrong. Steve Ray respects scripture very much. He respects it the way Jesus commands us to - by following the teachings of the Catholic Church with respect to oral and written Tradition.
Now that's just silly. The poster is seeking Truth and helping others to find it.
That you disagree with the poster's view does not make the poster a sower of discord.
Another point I hope the next installment covers is the whole idea that the early Apostolic Church fell into error. If it did, Christ lied when He said He would send the Holy Spirit to lead His Church to all Truth and that the gates of Hell would not prevail.
If the Apostolic Churches (Orthodox and Catholic) are completely wrong, we all believe in vain, because Christ would have been a liar.
> Steve Ray is not an attorney.
Didn’t literally mean an attorney; the nature of one
I got news for ya chump...If you are not a 'Bible' Christian, you ain't a Christian at all...
1. Where did Jesus give instructions that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book?
I conclude this was written by an unsaved person who is completely ignorant of God's scriptures...
Exo_24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.
God did not trust nor rely on Moses' memory to pass on what God told him...God wrote it down for him...
2Ki_23:21 And the king commanded all the people, saying, Keep the passover unto the LORD your God, as it is written in the book of this covenant.
No comment is needed...God has people write his words for posterity...
Jer_36:6 Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast written from my mouth, the words of the LORD in the ears of the people in the LORD'S house upon the fasting day: and also thou shalt read them in the ears of all Judah that come out of their cities.
God's commands his words to be written, and then read...
Mat_4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
So it is easy to conclude that every word from the mouth of God to us is to be written...
Act_13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
The New Testament is based on a 'book'...
Joh_20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Nothing outside of the written scriptures can possibly add one iota to our salvation or the knowledge of our salvation...
This voids any and all of the rest of the elementary questions posed in the supposed hit piece...Ignorance of God and ignorance of God's words is what breeds this kind of questioning...
Thank you for your witness.
One day “Job’s theologians” will answer for their doctrinaire pontifications.
When tradition and SCRIPTURE collide which do you go with?
1 Samuel 15:22
And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
exPBTrat said: “Just 38 more reasons why I’m grateful to be a practicing Catholic...we have the Doctors of the Church that sort this stuff out.”
“They’ve been working on this since the 1st Council of Nicaea and are still in business today. With the reciting of the Apostles Creed all Catholics agree to fall in step with the official teachings...or face the eternal consequences.”
It is in this that ALL of us can seek answers. The Roman Catholic Church has kept the lineal knowledge and studied the “Doctors of the Church” in whom many Protestants have rejected through ignorance, arrogance, or whatever. Too many Protestants go back only to the Protestant reformation for their “Doctors of the Church” and some do not even go that far.
What NYer posted is, in my view, merely a Catholic version of the lists I’ve seen “Bible only Protestants” post here. And I believe NYer did it as an example for all of how both sides can play the same game. And how it is destructive to both sides and Christian unity. For those who call NYer a “destructive troll,” I put forth that he/she can be alleged to be “destructive” only if you also condemn those Protestants who post similar lists as “destructive trolls.”
My bottom line is that NYer is no more a destructive troll than those whom leveled that accusation.
Yea verily.
It doesn’t take long to figure out this person has a real problem with the authority of the Bible. The Holy Spirit directs us as He did the authors of the books included in the New Testament. This writer seeks to create a wall where one doesn’t exist. God speaks to us both through His written word and through the spoken word but He well knows that the spoken word can easily be distorted and forgotten moreso than the written Word.
I have a question for this author: Why did God write His Ten Commandments in stone rather than just giving Moses the words to remember?
My guess is this author is either a homosexual trying to expunge the parts in Scripture that condemn homosexuals or he is someone who is seeking to so muddy the Christian faith as to make it untrustworthy.
this is only my humble opinion
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
These questions show a lack of understanding of what the Bible is, why we have it, and why it is important. The following is directed towards question 1.
Nowhere did “Jesus give instruction that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book”. This is an obvious fallacy of definition.
The “book” is the inspired word of God. Catholics and Protestants largely agree on this.
Protestants did not compile the books of the Bible, Catholics did.
Catholics devised the system by which some writings were judged inspired and some were not. The reasons behind the necessity for such a system are obvious.
Two verses which offer the motive for doing so are :
Deuteronomy 8:3
New King James Version (NKJV)
3 So He humbled you, allowed you to hunger, and fed you with manna which you did not know nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man shall not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord.
And:
Matthew 4:4
New International Version (NIV)
4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’[a]”
This establishes that we are to live by God’s word. How are we to know God’s word? By hearing it, or by reading it directly.
Protestants don’t claim that the Bible is the exhaustive word of God, but it is the accepted Canon, as determined by Catholics.
Protestants do not deny the concept of oral tradition itself, but of extra biblical, unsupported tradition or custom as authoritative.
We trust the written word because it does not change over time. Oral tradition is difficult to pass on exactly; each time it is told, something changes. Sometimes the changes are small, sometimes big and significant. Try playing children’s game of broken telephone, and you’ll see what I mean. Do you really want this to happen to your knowledge of God?
Who was Jesus and why did he come to Earth. Without the authority of the Bible the answers to that are just hearsay.
It’s truly odd just how little some Catholics esteem the very Bible they claim to own. What purpose does scripture serve if not as an anchor of truth? If scripture and doctrine or tradition are at odds, I’ll go with scripture. That’s what we’re told to do by scripture itself.
Catholic hatred of the bible is profound.
Paul
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