Posted on 08/01/2013 7:59:33 AM PDT by colorcountry
Remember: when you see the bitter apostate, you do not see only an absence of light, you see also the presence of darkness. Do not spread disease germs! - Boyd K. Packer
This past Saturday, The New York Times published an article titled "Some Mormons Search the Web and Find Doubt." The article is about Hans Mattsson who was an Area Authority in the LDS church, and it discusses his crisis of faith. I admire his courage in speaking out about his issues with the church, and I think it is further evidence that doubts affect all types of members. I encourage everyone to read the article and watch the video.
There has been a lot of discussion online in response to this article, and not surprisingly, the issue of anti-Mormons and anti-Mormon material keeps coming up. As a Mormon I was aware of the fact that there were a lot of anti-Mormons in the world, and that many of them wrote books, articles, websites and blogs dedicated to telling lies about the church. Now that I have left the church, my perspective of this label has changed completely, and I can see just how harmful it is.
"The word "anti-Mormon" is meant to be nothing more than an ugly pejorative. It is usually slapped on anyone who questions or disagrees with the teachings of the LDS faith and implies that the perceived critic is somehow "against" (anti) Mormons (as individuals)." - Bill McKeever
What makes something qualify as anti-Mormon? The general idea within the LDS church, and one that is frequently perpetuated by its leaders, is that anyone or anything that teaches something that contradicts the church's teachings, or paints the church in a negative light, is anti-Mormon. Read the following list and see if you can pick out which are anti-Mormon statements:
1. Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon using a special rock called a peep stone. He placed it in a hat, then put his face in the hat to block out the light, and then text was revealed to him on the surface of the stone. Joseph also sometimes received revelations through the stone. 2. Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, and had as many as 33 wives or more. Some of these marriages were polyandrous, meaning that Joseph married women who were already married to other men. Some of Joseph's wives were teenage girls. Joseph was secretive about his various marriages. In fact, at one point he married two sisters (who had been brought into their home as maids) and neither knew that the other was married to Joseph. 3. There are varying accounts of the First Vision, including differences in who visited Joseph, what he had been praying about, what was said to him, and even when the vision took place. 4. Joseph Smith and the others with him drank wine while in Carthage Jail. 5. The Book of Abraham does not match the contents of the papyri it was supposedly translated from. In fact, not only is the text nothing more than ordinary funerary papers, but the papyri have also been found to have originated much later than Abraham's time. 6. Oliver Cowdery used a diving rod to receive revelation and translate. 7. Joseph Smith was a treasure seeker or money digger, who was often involved in efforts to search for buried treasure by means of folk magic (including the use of diving rods and peep stones). 8. Many changes were made to revelations in the Book of Commandments before they were reprinted as the Doctrine and Covenants. 9. Joseph Smith claimed to have translated a portion of the Kinderhook Plates which were later discovered to be a hoax. 10. Mormon settlers massacred over 100 unarmed men, women and children in the Mountain Meadows Massacre in southern Utah, in 1857. 11. There was a group of men in the early church known as the "Danites," who were known for attacking non-Mormons. 12. Changes have been made to the text of the Book of Mormon over the years. One of the most significant changes involved altering references that referred to Jesus as "God" into "the Son of God."
Of all the issues on this list, how many of them have you heard discussed in Sacrament Meeting, Sunday School, General Conference, or other church meetings? How many of them are addressed in lesson manuals, Ensign articles and other church publications? How many of them seem to contradict things you have been taught in church? How many of them are you inclined to disregard as anti-Mormon statements?
The fact is that all of these statements can be verified in church approved resources. Every single one of them. (See notes below.) But these things aren't being taught in church, and many of them do contradict current church teachings. So by the generally accepted definition of "anti-Mormon," these statements qualify, and they come from the church itself!
I think it's time for the church and its members to abandon use of the term "anti-Mormon" for a few reasons. First of all, it is disingenuous and manipulative of the church leaders to encourage members to discover truth for themselves while also teaching that members should only trust "approved" resources. The truth should be evident, regardless of what sources are used. It is also misleading to categorize things as anti-Mormon when so much of what is discussed is verifiable in church resources.
Another reason the term "anti-Mormon" is harmful is because it is associated with a feeling of persecution among the members. They often feel like they are being attacked when someone presents information to them that is contrary to what they've been taught. An awful lot of feelings get hurt needlessly simply because of a misconception. If you can discuss differing views about politics without taking it personally when someone disagrees with you, then the same should be true of discussing religious beliefs. Disagreeing with an idea or a belief is not the same as hating the person who espouses those beliefs.
I think the worst thing about the term "anti-Mormon" is that it's so divisive. It polarizes people, and it shuts down discussion that is desperately needed. The world is not black and white. Not everything can be neatly categorized as pro-Mormon and anti-Mormon. The LDS religion is nuanced and complex. There are a variety of perspectives about different facets of it. It is a shame when dialogue is curtailed because of accusations that someone is anti-Mormon, or their source is anti-Mormon. It causes hard feelings on both sides of the fence, and it is often a factor in damaged relationships between people who leave the church and their friends and family who are still believing members.
Ultimately, the term "anti-Mormon" is not only damaging and counterproductive, but it is also inaccurate. The simple truth is that most people who are labeled as anti-Mormon have nothing against Mormons. In fact, many of them were once Mormons themselves. Many have countless friends and family members who are still in the church. These are people who love Mormons, not hate them. Love is what motivates many of them.
It's time to drop the term "anti-Mormon" from our vocabulary so it can stop detracting from the important issues, like open and honest discussions in the never-ending search for truth.
Note: The list above is by no means comprehensive, and is only a sampling of what can be found in the church's own resources. I will provide links to verify each statement, however please be aware that many of the statements can be confirmed in multiple places, and it would be too time consuming for me to provide links to every reference.
1. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1993/07/a-treasured-testament?lang=eng http://www.lds.org/ensign/2013/01/great-and-marvelous-are-the-revelations-of-god?lang=eng 2. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1979/06/steadfastness-and-patient-endurance-the-legacy-of-edward-partridge http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/M18K-6J5 http://josephsmithpapers.org/person/marinda-nancy-johnson-hyde http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/M1ZP-PZV 3. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1985/01/joseph-smiths-recitals-of-the-first-vision?lang=eng http://www.lds.org/ensign/1996/04/joseph-smiths-testimony-of-the-first-vision?lang=eng 4. http://byustudies.byu.edu/hc/hcpgs/hc.aspx?HC=/hc/6/1.html&A=616 (Vol. 7, Ch. 9, Pg. 101) 5. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/07/i-have-a-question 6. http://history.lds.org/article/doctrine-and-covenants-oliver-cowdery?lang=eng http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/revelation-april-1829-b-dc-8 7. http://byustudies.byu.edu/hc/hcpgs/hc.aspx?HC=/hc/6/1.html&A=616 (Vol. 3, Ch. 3, Pg. 29) http://josephsmithpapers.org/intro/joseph-smith-and-his-papers-an-introduction?p=2 8. http://books.google.com/books?id=pbkUAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=book+of+commandments&hl=en&ei=4lFATZTYIYH4sAP45oSzCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=1&ved=0CDcQ6wEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false http://www.lds.org/ensign/1985/02/preparing-early-revelations-for-publication?lang=eng 9. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1981/08/kinderhook-plates-brought-to-joseph-smith-appear-to-be-a-nineteenth-century-hoax?lang=eng http://archive.org/stream/improvementera6509unse#page/n21/mode/2up 10. http://www.lds.org/ensign/2007/09/the-mountain-meadows-massacre 11. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1979/04/missouris-impact-on-the-church http://www.lds.org/friend/1993/07/persecutions-in-missouri 12. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1983/12/understanding-textual-changes-in-the-book-of-mormon
Greetings ampu...
I was born into mormonism in a heavily mormon area in which I knew mormons who were drunks, thieves, pedophiles, adulterers and instead of neighbor-friendly were back-biting and judgmental.
In other words, having lived in several locations where mormons were plentiful, I found that mormons are NOT any different from any other group of people except in their tendency to consider themselves superior because of the claim to have the "restored" gospel and "the one and only true church on the face of the earth" and continually exhibit the arrogance that comes from that supposed "superiority".
mormon.org "The True and Living Church
You ask "Why are they so deceived?" I ask, why are so many Christians fooled by the false face presented by mormons to the world?
"If you call me anti-mormon, I will send it back."
"If you give me a FALSE Christ, I will send it back."
"If you try to pawn off a FALSE gospel of works, I will send it back."
"If you try to get me to believe in millions of mormonic gods, I will send them all back."-Anthony Grotti, The Office
This type post by you is just silly...
Was there a point in there some where?
One of the greatest sins you could make in a tournament, almost always promptly resulting in a loss of the contest, was resorting to ad hominem arguments ... attacking the motives or character of an individual rather than rebutting the validity of their position.
The dismissive use of the term anti-Mormon is a classic example of this loathsome practice.
It is done out of desperation.
In all of my many years of challenging the Saints with annotated facts, I have never had one instance where a Mormon was able to even minimally refute a major issue such as: the anachronisms in their scriptures; the contradictions between their scriptures; the additions and deletions to their scriptures; vast changes in their fundamental beliefs; the false prophesies made by their founders and early church members; and their sordid past.
And, of course, this is exactly why, at the present time, the Church is conducting a FAIR conference focusing on the topic of doubt by Mormons who are finally exposed to these facts regarding their faith.
Because the Good Book tells me that in the last days even the very elect are in danger of being deceived......
I'm SO glad you responded as you did...especially on a thread entitled: Dispelling the Anti-Mormon Myth
Well, yesterday I happened to be reviewing the word/topical index in the back of the 1990 Mormon church published "triple 'scriptures'" (Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price) under the entry Lamanites.
Allow me to post the index entry as it's found on p.200:
"Alma 23:17 (24:3) Lamanite converts take new name, Anti-Nephite Lehies"
ALL: I kid you NOT!!!
Joseph Smith...in a "time period" supposedly between 90 and 77 B.C....inserts the gold plate etcher as supposedly saying in the Book of Alma:
* "And it came to pass that they called their names Anti-Nephi-Lehies; and they were called by this name and were no more called Lamanites." (Alma 23:17)
* Alma 24:1 talks about those who "had not taken upon them the name of Anti-Nephi-Lehi"
* Alma 24:2 mentions how people "took up arms against the people of Anti-Nephi-Lehi"
* Alma 24:3 says "Now the king conferred the kingdom upon his son, and he called his name Anti-Nephi-Lehi."
Oh, sure.
Pre-Christ Native Americans readily id'd selves as "Anti-Nephi-Lehies."
I believe it. Don't y'all?
(But I do have some parcels of land in Anti-Nephi-Lehi land I want you to consider buying sight unseen...based upon your implicit trust in my ability to describe this land to you in narrative detail)
Quite obviously, Mormons LOVE to label people as "Antis"...from their very founder on down!
I spent some time recently further pondering such anachronisms...This was mostly "first-hand" research...not simply reading what others who've had issues with MormonISM...but digging DIRECTLY (primarily) into Mormon church published stuff...
Mormons, take a look yourself in this same way:
* In Alma 36:18, supposedly written 73 years prior to Christ's birth, we see this phrase: "Oh, Jesus thou Son of God, have mercy on me." [Really?]
* In 2 Nephi 9:18, supposedly written in 6th century B.C....the character talks about how others "endured the crosses of the world"
* We have a Democratic principle of how "law...must be established by the voice of the people" in 87 B.C. (Alma 2:3)
* Or in 67 BC we get phrases like "yielded to the standard of liberty...are compelled to hoist the title of liberty upon their towers and in their cities..." (Alma 51:20)
* What 1850s Utah Mormons couldn't have was supposedly in abundance in 90 B.C.: "wearing costly apparel" (Alma 1:32) consisting of "silk and fine-twined linen" (Alma 1:29)
* Also Alma 1: Did the gold-etcher REALLY use the word "ignominious" as an adjective in 90 B.C.? (Alma 1:15)
* And all this resurrection of the dead stuff in 83 BC? (Alma 4:14; see also being filled with great joy because of resurrection of dead -- Alma 5:14)
* John the Baptist language in same BC period? (Alma 5:50)
* Or compare Alma 7:14 to John 3...
* Or, if Alma 7:20 was written in "reformed Egyptian" -- how did it happen that the ENGLISH word "right" (used two different ways) is utilized as a play-on-words that works ONLY in English?
* Or how did BC Alma 7:24 look like Paul's 1 Cor. 13?
* Or how did they produce cement in BC times (Alma 9:28; see also Helaman 3:7,11)
* We see "church joining" in 120-100 BC times, eh? (Mosiah 26:14)
* Steel in Ether 7:9...or breakable windows in Ether 2:23...which supposedly was even earlier BC wise than all the above...
Hey there Boyd!
What about ME??
A fella that never WAS a deceived MORMON??
Some of us take this purpose statement of Free Republic at its word:
Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America. And we always have fun doing it. Hoo-yah!
So tell me how your mindless "How many angels can stand on the head of a pin?" debates do anything to further conservatism in America?
Particularly when the rest of us aren't even interested in arguing with your ilk. You don't win a debate just because we ignore you.
My apologies for paying you any attention and crashing in on your pity party. Now, I'm back to ignoring you as I should have done in the first place.
Everyone else; when you hear a MORMON speak; remember what MORMONism is founded upon:
Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).
I do think there is room for the use of terms like “church critic” to describe a person who sets forth well thought out analyses of doctrine, history, or practice. But I think anti-mormon is still useful, especially in describing those who make a cottage industry out of their discourse, especially when it is markedly hostile.
1. Some were born into it and it is their CULTURE as well.
2. Some do not have a cursory knowledge of what the BIBLE has taught for centuries asnd bought into what the missionaries told them.
3. Some were LoveBombed into the cult and have not had time yet to completely find out what they have chosen.
Bottom line is this...
2 Corinthians 11:12-15
12. But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Did God REALLY say...
Yup; like calling someone a RACIST or a HATER or a BIGOT.
It deflects the 'anti' away from examineing the falsity of whatever is being exosed, and into a defensive mode of trying to prove that they AIN'T what they just been called!
Homie don't play dat!
From someone who apparently APPROVED of the antics of the Danites - Porter Rockwell - and/or Friends of the Utes??
Ah...
The love just oozes!
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
Have a great ETERNITY!!
While others search it and find Truth.
NEVER has anything to add other than his 3 minute mantra...
The "Hates" (two-minutes hate and hate week) were inspired by the constant rallies sponsored by party organs throughout the Stalinist period. These were often short pep-talks given to workers before their shifts began ((two minutes hate), but could also last for days, as in the annual celebrations of the anniversary of the October revolution (hate week).
(Mormonism tends to inflate EVERYTHING!)
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