Posted on 07/19/2013 5:39:12 AM PDT by fatima
http://www.spiritdaily.com/lorig.htm
For Father Lorig, going strong at 77 and full of the Spirit, it's a matter of seeing some of it with his own eyes.
On about a dozen occasions, says the priest, he has personally encountered spirits of the dead, including at bedside during the night, and has been led to pray their souls toward Jesus.
Father Lorig, who was ordained a Catholic priest in 1984, and who is married with four children (and fifteen grandchildren), had some special experiences while at Saint Andrew's Episcopal Church in Nogales (near the Mexican border).
"It was built over an Indian graveyard -- paleo-Indians who were peaceful," says Father Lorig, pastor of Saint Maria Goretti parish (he is not associated with previous claims at this church of the supernatural).
"While we were digging a sacrarium -- a dry well [for proper disposal of Communion wine] -- the workmen came upon hand-made pots. We called the University of Arizona, which had paleontologists, and they came down.
So it was counted as a righteous piece of work done by Abraham you say?
I say works can't save without Christ -- you say the work of just saying "lord, Lord, I have faith" is enough
That is false and against what Jesus Himself said: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)", "> [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)", "[H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)", "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (Matt.24:13)"
Why will you not listen to Christ Himself?
sorry, that is sophistry.
The one who rebels against God and then accepts and then rebels is first called "saved for all them", then "never saved in the first place" and then "saved for all time"
Let's get a few things clear:
Perhaps.
But I recall a young woman when I was in college who switched from Jehovah's Witness to Baptist to Mormon all in the space of the 3 years that I knew her.
Was she truly a believer in anyone of these faiths? I think she was was confused young woman who was just lucky she didn't turn to drugs (at least that I know of).
I knew a man who, according to reports was really religious in his youth. After his mariage broke apart, he became a real horn dog. He once bragged to me that he had slept with over 300 women, that he could remember.
He also became a backstabbing, lying son of a gun. Was he ever truly Christian? I don't know, but if he was, then he will return to Christ before he dies. I don't know that he ever explicitly apostatized.
God is limited when we say that Jesus’ death on the cross was no enough and we have to add our own works.
Being born again, by the WORD, not water baptism.
Washing through the WORD, not water.
That is correct, that we could not get out of hell until the last penny is paid, which means that we would NEVER get out of hell because WE can’t pay that debt.
That is why we need the righteousness of Christ credited to our account, with the debt of sin canceled so that we don’t have to pay a debt we can’t pay.
It says *Abraham believed God and that was counted to him as righteousness. It doesn’t say it was counted to him when he worked.
I'll take HIS word for it that I am secure in Him by simply believing.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 10:25-30 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
What does Jesus say saves us?
| 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. |
Jesus said it is not faith ALONE. We are saved by God's GRACE. Full-stop.
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- it's never faith ALONE. Note that
no one is denying that one MUST have faith to be saved by the freely given grace of salvation, however, it is not faith ALONE. As shown above, Jesus Himself said that
He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
[U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3
[H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)
So, do listen to the words of Jesus who said it is faith+ repentance+baptism+the Eucharist+endurance, not any of these in isolation. Of course, these don't "save us" per se, since it is Christ's sacrifice on the Cross that grants us our salvation that we can accept or reject
The problem happens when one takes one section of the word in isolation.
water and spirit provide the means by which which the "imperishable seed" of the Word of God produces its life-giving effect. 1 Pet 1:23
| 23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. |
he significance of the spear piercing the side of Christ releasing WATER and blood? Water and Spirit are merged and the significance is palpable:
The blood and water that flowed from the pierced side of the crucified Jesus are types of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life.
Jn 19:34
| 34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. |
1 Jn 5:6-8
| 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. |
From then on, it is possible "to be born of water and the Spirit" Jn 3:5
| 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. |
in order to enter the Kingdom of God.
by water through the Word.
Do NOT limit Christ by saying one is saved by faith ALONE. He never said that. do listen to the words of Jesus who said it is faith+ repentance+baptism+the Eucharist+endurance, not any of these in isolation. Of course, these don't "save us" per se, since it is Christ's sacrifice on the Cross that grants us our salvation that we can accept or reject
The problem happens when one takes one section of the word in isolation.
| 34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. |
1 Jn 5:6-8
| 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. |
From then on, it is possible "to be born of water and the Spirit" Jn 3:5
| 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. |
in order to enter the Kingdom of God.
And no one says that
Purgatory as the final step in sanctification is our sanctification by Christ. Nothing we can say or do saves us. It is Christ's blood that saves us.
As it is noted in scripture we are in the process of sanctification by the blood of Christ
Perhaps, or perhaps confused
Was he ever truly Christian? -- > we don't know, perhaps he was, perhaps he wasn't.
I don't know, but if he was, then he will return to Christ before he dies. I don't know that he ever explicitly apostatized. -- again, God knows.
I believe in a loving God who gives us the forgiveness freely, we just have to accept it. Yet like recalcitrant criminals we head back to the life we know. God forgives and that is incredible as we don't deserve it and we are not worthy, but He forgives. So He extends the hand continually, we can accept and reject, accept and reject, His patience is infinite. We as humans can't do that and can't fathom why He would either, but He does.
Coming up with an explanation of "she was never Christian in the first place" when sometime earlier "she is assured of salvation because she accepted Jesus as her buddy" is sophistry.
We need to accept Christ on His terms -- repent+believe+be baptised+eat of His body+endure to the end. We may stumble and fall, but there is ALWAYS the helping hand ready to lift us up, we just need to accept it...
I really think that you misunderstand my position. Saying the words doesn't do anything for your soul. God does not indulge in magic.
You have to accept Christ as Savior, but then you have to follow Him. Not for salvation's sake, that you now already have, but for love of God, because He commanded.
Failure to do so will not cost you your salvation. You do need to repent, but confessing to a priest is not necessary. As Christians, we are our own priests, and Jesus is our High Priest, the ONLY mediator between God and man.
You may slip and stumble and commit grievous sins, but your salvation is not lost. Yet you still need to repent of them. If you, say, go from being a choirboy to a gangsta, sell drugs, rob, rape, and murder people, or from a choirgirl to, say, a super rock star, and do drugs, fornicate wildly, marry 4 husbands; then in these cases were you truly saved as a choirboy/girl.
If you had died then, instead of going on to live a life of sin, would you have gone to heaven? Only god can judge the heart and soul, but my guess would be NO. You were not truly saved.
If on your deathbed, you repented and turned to God, would you be saved? Yes, and that is not a guess. Even Hitler could have done it, although I doubt that he did.
But the question is, was this the first time You accepted God, or did God extend your life long enough for an already saved person to come back to Him?
I don't know, and neither do you. What we both know is what our church teaches about this. But I don't consider this a doctrine essential to salvation, just one that is about salvation, so I am prepared to be wrong about it.
Either way, I will make it to heaven, and while only God can judge the soul, I assume that you will, too. When we get there, we'll know.
John 10:25-30 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
Ephesians 1:13-14 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5:4-8 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
When we accept Christ's sacrificial death on the cross as payment for our own sin, we become the children of God. (John 1:12-13).
We are adopted into God's family and He seals us with His Holy Spirit to guarantee our redemption.
Did your parents disown you every time you disobeyed them? Did they write you in and out of their will on a minute by minute basis?
Or did your disobedience simply break down the lines of communication between you and them?
Maybe this is news to you, but God doesn't expect us to be perfect. He knows we can't be.
He gave us the Law, not as a means of salvation but to show us His standard, to show us our need for a Savior, to lead us to Christ.
If you are going to go on about your on again/ off again salvation on a sin by sin basis, then you are left trying to deal with this verse.
Hebrews 12:26-31 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampledunderfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
The only thing that is limiting Christ is saying that His sacrificial death on the cross is not enough and that we have to add something to it.
At that point, then, you are not depending on Christ's FINISHED work on the cross, but on baptism, communion, works, whatever else it is you feel you have to add to it.
Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
And Lot was called *righteous Lot*.
Hardly a term I would apply to a man who lived like he did, and yet God called him *righteous*.
David, who committed adultery and then have the woman’s husband murdered to try to cover up the sin, was still called *a man after God’s own heart*.
Yes, God demands perfection from us. No, we are not able to meet it.
That’s why Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us, so that when God sees us, He sees the righteousness of Christ on us, that perfection that He demands.
THAT is why we will not gain and lose our salvation on a minute by minute basis. If it were up to us, no one would make it. Thank God that it is HE who works in us to will and to do according to His good pleasure.
THAT is God’s grace which saves us.
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