Posted on 07/10/2013 3:05:50 AM PDT by markomalley
A newspaper column lampooning Southern Baptists, calling the group "the crazy old paranoid uncle of evangelical Christians," is causing quite a stir in a Kentucky city and put a pastor's job in jeopardy.
The column was written by Angela Thomas, the wife of Bill Thomas, an assistant pastor at the First Baptist Church in Madisonville. Her column was done in response to the Southern Baptist Convention's opposition to a new Boy Scouts of America policy that welcomes gay members.
"Sexuality doesn't come up and isn't relative to typical scouting activities but now, thanks to Southern Baptists, the parents of little innocent scouts everywhere are having to have The Talk," she wrote June 19 in The Madisonville Messenger. She writes a weekly humor column for the community paper, which publishes daily.
In the weeks since, the status of Bill Thomas' job with the church has become unclear. The First Baptist pastor said he had accepted Thomas' resignation, but Thomas' wrote in a letter obtained by the newspaper he had not quit.
Thomas has worked at the church for 10 years and was also its musical director.
Bill and Angela Thomas declined to be interviewed by The Associated Press on Tuesday. But he previously told the newspaper he agreed with what his wife wrote.
The column said Southern Baptists have become "raging Shiite Baptists" after drifting "to the right" for the past four decades.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Exactly, this chosen life style of sin that is being pushed by the enemy in order to lead many away from God's gracious Love for a mess of sexual pottage.
I can see the humor in what she wrote. /not
No kidding! Especially if her husband says he agrees, as this pastor’s done. Yup, going to be some employment issues there.
I would wonder if the pastor himself helped pen this letter. How does a congregation call a pastor or remove him in a Baptist church? Could it be he wants "out" of this congregation and this is how he and his wife decided to begin the process?
It depends on each local church. in the Southern Baptist Convention each church is autonomous. They can fire or hire at their own will and pleasure. As I mentioned, in the article it said that he also allowed an openly gay person to be in the choir even though the senior pastor instructed him not to. The senior pastor is Shepard of that flock and an associate pastor really would not have the right to flaunt the wishes of the church or the senior pastor. The board most likely makes those types of decisions and they were trying to allow him to resign. In the Southern Baptist denomination a firing pretty much means that you don’t find other jobs, so a resignation would allow him to find employment at another church.
Problem is that this is that church’s prerogative and right and should have been a private matter.
True. The worship team, be they vocal or instrumental, are in ministry. I was put through the proverbial wringer when I got divorced, although once they realized my husband abandoned me I was allowed to stay. Had I initiated the divorce for any reason other than abuse or adultery, I would have been asked to leave the orchestra. We represent the church.
“Pentecostal adage?”
It’s not mere adage, it’s part of God’s inerrant, infallible, and fully sufficient Scripture. And that passage puts as much or more obligation on the husband. Sadly, too many don’t understand it within the church, so I certainly don’t expect those outside the church to get it.
The wives in my church are treated with honor and respect. And they are a credit to their husbands, they are real ladies who would never embarrass their husbands by being in open rebellion against God’s moral order in the local newspaper.
Ephesians 5:22-33
King James Version (KJV)
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
You probably don’t like what the Bible has to say about remarrying if your first spouse is still alive. I hope you follow the rules a bit closer on envy, theft, murder, gossip and egotism.
As an Eagle Scout, former Scoutmaster and District Committee member, I know the Scout Oath and its passage about being MORALLY STRAIGHT, and any Scout having sex outside of marriage is breaking that oath. “Openly Homosexual” means practicing homosexual and is against the Scout Oath.
Boys may join the Scouts at age 11 or the fifth grade and continue until age 18, or 21 in the Explorers. Everything is fun and fine until an “openly gay” 17 year old decides he is attracted to a fifth grader......
Furthermore, Baptists in the SBC do not generally consider themselves Pentecostal.
....Thomas has worked at the church for 10 years and was also its musical director. Bill and Angela Thomas declined to be interviewed by The Associated Press on Tuesday. But he previously told the newspaper he agreed with what his wife wrote. The column said Southern Baptists have become "raging Shiite Baptists" after drifting "to the right" for the past four decades.
That was no "drift".
The issue at hand here seems to be wanting to LIBERALIZE the Southern Baptist denomination and using their church leadership position to do so which is wrong and conduct that should be questioned by the church. Deacons would be wise in asking them both to move on. That should be well within a churches right to set their own doctorine and standards of conduct for membership in same. Oh and I would say the same for any member of the church doing this.
Why should her and her husband be so special? Sure both of them can have an opinion and even attack their church. If it is public then their church has the right to ask them to leave. It's not that complicated really.
When I first read this story, certain verses from the 14th chapter of Proverbs came to mind.
14:1 “Every wise woman buildeth her house: but the foolish plucketh it down with her hands.” I hope this family is ready for unemployment because that is the likely outcome. Did her foolish rebellion pluck prosperity out from under her family?
14:8-9 “The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit. Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.”
14:12 “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”
14;25 “A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness speaketh lies.”
14:33-34 “Wisdom resteth in the heart of him that hath understanding: but that which is in the midst of fools is made known.Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.”
Both are opposed to the very clear teaching of the Bible. This did NOT happen because "the local church set[s] up it's (sic) own version of the corporate board room". The issue was brought up at the Southern Baptist Convention voted on and approved.
You seem concerned as to whether or not "this church has a current '503c' ". I assume that you mean the 501(c)(3). "Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations."
"IRS-Exempt Charitable Organizations"
Do you advocate that a tax exempt status be revoked due to opposition to the homosexual targeting of young boys? California is trying to rule that teenaged boys can use the girls restrooms & showers. Would a church's opposition to co-ed camping trips by teenagers also displease you?
The American right of free speech is in regard to governmental restraints, not private. It also happens to be enumerated in a phrase which is PRECEDED by the prohibition "impeding the free exercise of religion", which was also "bought with blood, (some of mine, too)".
Churches routinely & rightly prohibit freedom of speech (e.g., vulgar jokes & music), freedom of the press (Playboy & Hustler in the hymnal racks on the back of the pews) and they would most likely "interfere with the right to peaceably assemble" ("No, you cannot hold your weekly poker game with whiskey & cigars in the back of the sanctuary during Sunday morning services!")
The US government is trying very hard to Establish a religion (The 1st Church of Sodomy) and the very first phrase in the First Amendment clearly prohibits this.
Finally, I suggest that you re-read the Bill of Rights and, since you mentioned them, the New Testament books of First and Second Timothy. In particular, 1Timothy 1:6-10
"Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"
You may be right on the money here. The whole resigned vs. terminated issue sounds like someone jockying to receive unemployment benefits. The whole patter of behavior may be someone looking for a way to get fired that would still allow them to collect unemployment.
In all fairness, I need to back off on this assertion a bit. I see now the Church offered a severance package, so I may be way off base here.
I'm mildly curious about two things:
1) Do you claim to be a Christian?
2) Do you know the origin of that "Pentecostal addage (sic)"?
The wife's character and behavior is taken into account when hiring a pastor. God has made them one flesh, she is as important as he is to the health of the church.
There was no outcry that she voiced her views. That is both expected and needed in the church. The outcry is that her views are anti-biblical.
I give her a lot of credit, for stating what she feels needed to be said!
What she said was "I do not believe in the bible as the inspired word of God. I believe the bible is wrong and that homosexuality is a perfectly acceptable lifestyle. I believe that homosexuals should be allowed to prey upon our younger boys in boy scouts."
This is not an acceptable belief for a pastor to have. And if his wife has it, but he does not (Although he publicly agreed with her so we know he also holds it), then he is failing to rule his own house (as required by scripture) and allowing his wife to not only believe heresy but to preach it. He has failed both her and the church.
The Pentecostal addage, “Wives, submit to your husbands.” has never sat well with me, (and I was married twice),
Ever think that maybe the reason you had to be married twice is that you did not accept what the bible said about it? (Although please interpret it correctly in the full light of scipture. The verses quoted above by another poster do not make the wife a slave to her husband).
because it -IS- an encroachment on the American right of free speech, bought with blood, (some of mine, too).
She has every right to free speech. No one said she didn't. But the church also has every right to fire her and her equally non-believing husband because they are promoting homosexuality (and thus enabling the homosexuals to go to hell, rather then dragging them back from the edge and getting them saved). They should never, ever get another job in ministry as they obviously don't believe God. They are not Christians.
Well, it didn't. But it isn't the Southern Baptists who introduced the subject. To the best of my knowledge, the Scouts had no policy requireing boys, or scoutmasters, for that matter, to declare their sexuality. Their ban was on "out" homosexuals. How could they know if a boy didn't announce his orientation, or get caught in the act?
No, the gays wanted to shove their perversions in your face and make you like it. But the Baptists, all real Christians in fact, are just never going to like it.
Amen!
"CONGRESS. SHALL. MAKE. NO. LAW."
"Free exercise" of speech, of the press, of religion, means this in practice: a whole lot of people deploying their speech, press, and religion as they see fit, with no government interference.
It means Ms Ministerial Wife has the right to print her divisive, hyperbolic and insulting views about the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) in the newspaper, and it means the Baptist Church has a right to hire and fire at their discretion.
The "right to free speech" means speech without government censorship, not without real-world consequences.
This woman wanted her words to be "impactful," as they say, and lo and behold, they had their impact. She should be marveling that people read her and took her seriously.
She sure can't blame the Church for saying "You don't want to be associated with 'raging Shiite Baptists'? Fine. You're outta here."
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