Posted on 06/21/2013 4:07:10 AM PDT by markomalley
When you look around society today, it doesn’t look good.
Even in the Church, people are committing abortion and contraception.
They are sleeping together outside of marriage, using porn, and doing a host of other things that can endanger their souls.
It can be tempting to conclude that most Catholics in America today are going to go to hell.
Is the situation that bleak?
A Question from a Reader
A reader writes:
I belong to a great parish, full of wonderful people who love God and neighbor.
However, I can't help but be aware that at least from an objective viewpoint, most of them seem to be in a state of mortal sin per the Church's teaching.
The most common one is the use of contraception, but there are plenty of others, including cohabitation prior to marriage, remarriage outside the Church, etc.
The Church views all these things as mortal sins, although it's clear these people don't view them that way.
Our society at this moment makes it really difficult for people, especially young people, to do what the Church expects.
I also know that most of these people genuinely and sincerely do not believe they are sinning. They continue to pray, to attend Mass, and have faith in Christ, which indicates to me that they don't desire to cut themselves off from God.
Is it truly likely that the vast majority of American Catholics will end up in hell?
What can we say here?
(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...
Might be fun to compare your response with his.
Also, as an act of mercy for the illustrious Religion Moderator, I am leaving this thread as open (I figure why make the RM delete a bunch of "absolutely" posts from certain quarters...that's a whole bunch of work).
So, enjoy...
It can be tempting to conclude that most everyone other than one's perfect self is going to hell. However, we need to remember that the definition of "temptation" is "an incitement to sin." The proper response to this temptation is not to indulge in some pleasureable Friday-morning mudslinging, but to flee from it.
Romans 6:23:
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
I figure it isn't my job to tell somebody the state of their own soul.
OTOH, it is my job to minimize the opportunities for them to rely upon "invincible ignorance" (to borrow a Pio Nono expression).
Have you ever had somebody tell you that they didn't want to learn what the Church teaches on a given subject?
No, I haven't, but I have heard plenty of people insist that the only real authority is one's own opinion.
In my fifteen years of being a Catholic I have yet to hear a homily that mentioned the evils of contraception, pornography, cohabitation outside of marriage, etc. It makes it quite difficult for the average Catholic to be aware of these things when they are never discussed by the local deacon, priest or bishop.
Yes!! Everyone goes to communion and there is no way they are in the state of Grace. It’s like a communist breadline. Corinthians 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
I am a sinner and have no wish to judge others, God does that. Yet, observing so called catholics in good standing living a flagrant disregard for the commandments and then blithely partaking in the eucharist is a scandal to all; that circumstance is not the same thing as someone personally judging.
That is why we have confession - to remedy the situation!! Sure, the sins are stubborn; if people would put themselves in a state of grace by using confession, they will have spiritual aid to fight the temptations, not succumb.
The Answer is Clear.............
Matt 7:23
“And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Yup. They're good at quoting Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions but not so good at remembering Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened or This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin." In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.
Quoting anything would be far too intellectual. What I encounter is just mindless relativism and wishful thinking, of the sort that leaves one staring, open-mouthed, very rudely.
Outstanding post. A thoughtful distinction made between judging and discerning.
Sadly you are right.....not discussed...would upset the women!
winner winner chicken dinner.
Seriously though, I feel like I repeat this over and over again. When will our leaders grow a spine...again?
Instead of homilies that might actually make people stop and think about the specific (grave) sins they are committing we have general wishy washy homilies that speak of sin in general terms. If we’re lucky those homilies might also speak of the need to go to confession.
Don’t want to upset the apple cart!
I love the quote but not to back up an opinion of why someone else may go to Hell. I like it because it illustrates the wonderful gift of Christ's sacrifice that sinners might not perish - not because they stopped behaving sinfully, but because He has washed their sins from them and refuses to count/recognize future sinful behavior if they have accepted Him as their Lord and Savior. May not seem fair to those who really try hard to not commit sinful acts, but it is because HE IS.
Jeremiah 31:34:
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
Quotes are only useful if truly apropos of the situation - I would no sooner take a quote like yours out of context than try to use the "Body is your temple" quote to declare that eating right and exercising is a requirement to the whole deal.
I say what I said to try to help believers keep it real and not fall into the habit that the enemy uses - misusing Biblical Words to further aq personal opinion/belief rather than conveying the true meaning of the quotes. When we do it, we help justify the Evil One's minions.
While it is true that many of them are committing sins that have grave matter, between poor catechesis in Church, society’s constant assault on Church teaching, and the various factors that diminish the voluntary and free character of a sin, quite a number of them likely do not have all three conditions fulfilled. Also, even when all three conditions are fulfilled and a sin is mortal, that does not mean a person will be damned. It means that they would be damned if they died right now without repenting, but God is patient and gives us time to repent, and many people do before they die.
Apart from the whole "meets all three conditions" thing, that's the answer I was expecting Akin to give.
ghod does not take attendance
Kudos for using an acronym I haven’t heard in a long time: There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
“I love the quote but not to back up an opinion of why someone else may go to Hell.”
The scripture posting is to respond to the thread subject and alert sinners that there is a savior in the Lord Jesus Christ and a free gift “Ephesians 2:8,9 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.”
The subject of the thread was speculation on certain individuals going to hell apparently even after accepting the Savior the Lord Jesus Christ, with the author apparently elevating the sins of others above his own, which is not my opinion.
Notice 1 Corinthians 6, 9-10 covers all sin, not just cherry picked sins that those involved in religious legalism try to throw at us to advance their agenda.
Verses 9-10:
“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
But good news, there is a Savior!
Verse 11: “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
Sin is sin, and their is one Savior the Lord Jesus Christ to wash those sins away for those who believe. We share and use the word of God with each other not to condemn other believers, but for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training into righteousness. “2 Timothy 3:16”
It’s more certain that the American bishops have gone / are going to Hell. They are responsible for failing to preach the one true Faith and the morality that goes with it for decades. We sheep are less culpable, at least objectively.
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