Posted on 05/31/2013 2:44:05 PM PDT by NYer
Do our Catholic children and most adults know what these images teach?
All of us know one of the elephants in the room of the Catholic Church. Our religious education programs are not handing on the essence of our Catholic Faith, our parents are befuddled about their role in handing on the faith and the materials we use are vapid or if good do not make an impression on young minds. We are afraid of asking for memorization and thus most don't remember anything they've learned about God and Church other than some niceties and feel good emotions.
I teach each class of our grades 1-6 (we don't have 7th or 8th) each Thursday, rotating classes from week to week. For the last two years I have used Baltimore Catechism #1 as my text book. It is wonderful to use with children and it is so simple yet has so much content. If Catholics, all Catholics, simply studied Baltimore Catechism #1, we would have very knowledgeable Catholics.
These past two years I've used Baltimore Catechism #2 with our adult religious program which we call Coffee and Conversation following our 9:30 AM Sunday Mass, which coincides with our CCD program which we call PREP (Parish Religious Education Program).
This #2 book has more content and is for middle school, but upper elementary school children must have been more capable of more serious content back when this book was formulated and used through the mid 1960's because it is a great book to use with adults and not childish at all. We all use this same book as a supplemental book for the RCIA because it is so clear, nobly simple and chocked full of content!
Yes, there are some adjustments that need to be made to some chapters, but not that many, in light of Vatican II and the new emphasis we have on certain aspects of Church that are not present in the Baltimore Catechism. But these are really minor.
What is more important though is that when the Baltimore Catechism was used through the mid 1960's it was basically the only book that was used for children in elementary and junior high school. It was used across the board in the USA thus uniting all Catholics in learning the same content. There was not, in other words, a cottage industry of competing publishing houses selling new books and different content each year.
The same thing has occurred with liturgical music, a cottage industry of big bucks has developed around the sale of new hymnals, missalettes and new music put on the open market for parishes to purchase. It is a money making scheme.
Why do our bishop allow this to happen in both liturgical music and parish catechesis? The business of selling stuff to parishes and making mega bucks off of it is a scandal that has not be addressed.
In the meantime, our liturgies suffer and become fragmented because every parish uses a different resource for liturgical music and the same is true of religious formation, everyone uses something different of differing quality or no quality at all.
Isn't it time to wake up and move forward with tried and true practices that were tossed out in favor of a consumerist's approach to our faith that has weakened our liturgies, our parishes and our individual Catholics?
The Church of The Perpetually Offended
That seems fitting.
And it is not flame bait because "having no idea" is not criminal behavior which would apply to a group of which another Freeper is a member and has taken offense.
That's your first sentence and I stopped reading there.
There is ONLY ONE salvation - I'm not going to play a 'muddy the waters' game with lots of mumbo jumbo!
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is NOT from yourselves, it is THE GIFT of God— NOT by works, so that no one can boast. Eph 2:8
Hear and Obey. There is nothing to discuss. If you want salvation this is the ONLY way to receive it - as a Gift of by faith. 'Man' and their teachings on salvation is null and void - what they think, want or wrongly interpret just doesn't matter. The GIFT is from God, not man. Rome/man has nothing to do with anyone's salvation.
That's OK. I really didn't think you could or would engage in an actual discussion. I don't think anyone can differentiate your theology from Islam based upon the content of your posts.
Why not they/man taught you what to believe.
I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
Yet, you believe in man being infallible like they are equal to the Almighty. ONLY GOD is infallible NEVER man - not even one time. You believe in that because, once again, Rome/your church taught you to believe it even though it's not biblical AT ALL.
Don't you?
I don't believe 'man' and their teachings about the things of God. I BELIEVE GOD and what HE says about His Word, Himself, His Son, His Kingdom, His thoughts, His Ways which are higher than 'man's. I hear and obey by faith as I want to be pleasing to God. Don't you?
If you had said "evidently you believe" you would be expressing your own mind and not reading his.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
All gobbly gook that only proves 'something' - look at me.
While Paul put his life behind pointing to JESUS/TheTruth!
As usual, Daniel, great work!
Exactly. Projection - Mumbo jumbo is from man and is their teachings - where worship isn't worship and remembrance doesn't mean remembrance and where a GIFT is something you work for - yet the gift is priceless so how much to 'bank' and how much more is needed is unknown. Land of confusion, mumbo jumbo indeed.
I take it that was not meant as some form of joke. So tell us, what is it about his theology that is so similar to (of all things!) Islam? Based upon the content of his posts? Provide those items, bring some real Islam, set them side-by-side for comparison, and let's see about that.
Or, you could retract the comment, if you wish. I'll leave the choice up to you.
...think of this overall comment of mine here being a big 'ol
But let's not let this one slide, shall we? Substantiate or retract.
McGrath's work is refuting the RC straw man of sola ecclesia as meaning the faith that appropriates justification need not be the kind of faith that will effect works, though the sinner comes to Christ as damned + destitute of any merit that would justify him as worthy of eternal life, but whose faith is counted for righteousness, and whose subsequent works testify to having a genuine, worthy faith.
The "easy believism" of some modern preaching is an aberration, while the Roman form of this is what it predominately effectually conveys today, which is basically that no matter how "nominal," you are a member of the RCC, and as long as you die in her hands she will get you into heaven. Thus you have the TRC sect within Rome in protest to this, but which contends for the gospel which overall fosters faith in the church for salvation, not Scriptural regeneration on personal repentant faith directly in the Lord Jesus.
Are you basing your argument SOLELY on scripture?
Oooooo, that sounds like flame baiting.
I'm going to go running, whining to the RM.......
Or, you could retract the comment, if you wish. I'll leave the choice up to you.
Shall I get out the popecorn?
Until you become a new creation in Christ, there is simply know way of understanding this verse.
When you've become that new creation, you understand.
That's why it throws unbelievers so much when you talk about being *in Christ* and heave out the insults.
Had you stuck to what I actually said instead of conjecture about what you think I meant you might have a case. The RM is correct that you were involved in a failed mind reading exercise. Discussing theology is much more interesting and rewarding than discussing me.
Peace be with you.
Exactly. And God's Word tells us they can't understand His Word because it's spiritually discerned. They read it but ignore it so they never learn from it - the thought never enters....like 'so that's what I need to do to understand' because they are obedient to 'man' and not to God.
Deception keeps them unteachable to the ways of God and pride keeps them there. Thankfully, Jesus got us out of there before pride entered in! There are many who attend 'their church' out of habit and they don't know anything else but God sees their heart and the HS will prompt them and then TRUE SEEKING comes and they are out the door in a NY minute!
Like we learn from Peter, revelation of who Jesus is - needs to be revealed to us by the Spirit. It's a supernatural work of God. Man is not supernatural, yet catholics believe their pope is when he says he is because 'man' taught them that. Another con job by the one who wanted to.... "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Is 14:13,14
He gets to do that through Rome/RCC where man bows to him. Notice the brag about the number he has bowing to him like it's some great feat?
And they are stuck in seeing things in the worldly way. And 'Mother' is another one that they are deceived about. God is no respector of persons which is opposite of 'the natural' way we live here on earth. Jesus tells us who His mother, brother, sisters are - according to HIS WAY, HIS THOUGHTS which are higher than man's thoughts and ways. And Heaven's ways are higher than this earth's ways.
That's another Scripture/teaching of Jesus they ignore or 'try' to explain away. Evil has been here since the beginning with deception, his only tool, and will remain until Jesus comes. It's those who are EASILY LED, a toy of satan, who will go down with it/evil and continue to be in bondage with him. While we, who are free 'in Christ', will go up with Him and continue to be free with HIM in His Kingdom. We are blessed! Without HIS WORD we wouldn't know JESUS. Now who tried to keep IT from us? Misery who wants company. (numbers, again)
Man made teachings is the road/the way to deception and then death and destruction. We believe JESUS IS The TRUTH, the Way to eternal life! Jesus is The Word.
Sorry for the delay in responding,dear friend. As I mentioned in the last post, my time is limited due to my Mothers illness and being busy with work
To start with, let me take the worry off your mind of thinking I felt challenged and got huffy like you mentioned in your post.I did not feel challenged and get huffy. I apologize for misjudging your style of writing and calling you snarky.
As far as this topic goes it’s best I use the encyclical ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA rather than me not express this correctly.
The Church constantly draws her life from the redeeming sacrifice; she approaches it not only through faith-filled remembrance, but also through a real contact, since this sacrifice is made present ever anew, sacramentally perpetuated, in every community which offers it at the hands of the consecrated minister. The Eucharist thus applies to men and women today the reconciliation won once for all by Christ for mankind in every age. “The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice”.14 Saint John Chrysostom put it well: “We always offer the same Lamb, not one today and another tomorrow, but always the same one. For this reason the sacrifice is always only one... Even now we offer that victim who was once offered and who will never be consumed”.15
The Mass makes present the sacrifice of the Cross; it does not add to that sacrifice nor does it multiply it.16 What is repeated is its memorial celebration, its “commemorative representation” (memorialis demonstratio),17 which makes Christ’s one, definitive redemptive sacrifice always present in time. The sacrificial nature of the Eucharistic mystery cannot therefore be understood as something separate, independent of the Cross or only indirectly referring to the sacrifice of Calvary.
13. By virtue of its close relationship to the sacrifice of Golgotha, the Eucharist is a sacrifice in the strict sense, and not only in a general way, as if it were simply a matter of Christ’s offering himself to the faithful as their spiritual food. The gift of his love and obedience to the point of giving his life (cf. Jn 10:17-18) is in the first place a gift to his Father. Certainly it is a gift given for our sake, and indeed that of all humanity (cf. Mt 26:28; Mk 14:24; Lk 22:20; Jn 10:15), yet it is first and foremost a gift to the Father: “asacrifice that the Father accepted, giving, in return for this total self-giving by his Son, who ‘became obedient unto death’ (Phil 2:8), his own paternal gift, that is to say the grant of new immortal life in the resurrection”.18
In giving his sacrifice to the Church, Christ has also made his own the spiritual sacrifice of the Church, which is called to offer herself in union with the sacrifice of Christ. This is the teaching of the Second Vatican Council concerning all the faithful: “Taking part in the Eucharistic Sacrifice, which is the source and summit of the whole Christian life, they offer the divine victim to God, and offer themselves along with it”.19
14. Christ’s passover includes not only his passion and death, but also his resurrection. This is recalled by the assembly’s acclamation following the consecration: “We proclaim your resurrection”. The Eucharistic Sacrifice makes present not only the mystery of the Saviour’s passion and death, but also the mystery of the resurrection which crowned his sacrifice. It is as the living and risen One that Christ can become in the Eucharist the “bread of life” (Jn 6:35, 48), the “living bread” (Jn 6:51). Saint Ambrose reminded the newly-initiated that the Eucharist applies the event of the resurrection to their lives: “Today Christ is yours, yet each day he rises again for you”.20 Saint Cyril of Alexandria also makes clear that sharing in the sacred mysteries “is a true confession and a remembrance that the Lord died and returned to life for us and on our behalf”.21
15. The sacramental re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice, crowned by the resurrection, in the Mass involves a most special presence which – in the words of Paul VI – “is called ‘real’ not as a way of excluding all other types of presence as if they were ‘not real’, but because it is a presence in the fullest sense: a substantial presence whereby Christ, the God-Man, is wholly and entirely present”.22 This sets forth once more the perennially valid teaching of the Council of Trent: “the consecration of the bread and wine effects the change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord, and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. And the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called this change transubstantiation”.23 Truly the Eucharist is a mysterium fidei, a mystery which surpasses our understanding and can only be received in faith, as is often brought out in the catechesis of the Church Fathers regarding this divine sacrament: “Do not see – Saint Cyril of Jerusalem exhorts – in the bread and wine merely natural elements, because the Lord has expressly said that they are his body and his blood: faith assures you of this, though your senses suggest otherwise”.24
Adoro te devote, latens Deitas, we shall continue to sing with the Angelic Doctor. Before this mystery of love, human reason fully experiences its limitations. One understands how, down the centuries, this truth has stimulated theology to strive to understand it ever more deeply.
These are praiseworthy efforts, which are all the more helpful and insightful to the extent that they are able to join critical thinking to the “living faith” of the Church, as grasped especially by the Magisterium’s “sure charism of truth” and the “intimate sense of spiritual realities”25 which is attained above all by the saints. There remains the boundary indicated by Paul VI: “Every theological explanation which seeks some understanding of this mystery, in order to be in accord with Catholic faith, must firmly maintain that in objective reality, independently of our mind, the bread and wine have ceased to exist after the consecration, so that the adorable body and blood of the Lord Jesus from that moment on are really before us under the sacramental species of bread and wine”.26
16. The saving efficacy of the sacrifice is fully realized when the Lord’s body and blood are received in communion. The Eucharistic Sacrifice is intrinsically directed to the inward union of the faithful with Christ through communion; we receive the very One who offered himself for us, we receive his body which he gave up for us on the Cross and his blood which he “poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins” (Mt 26:28). We are reminded of his words: “As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me” (Jn 6:57). Jesus himself reassures us that this union, which he compares to that of the life of the Trinity, is truly realized. The Eucharist is a true banquet, in which Christ offers himself as our nourishment. When for the first time Jesus spoke of this food, his listeners were astonished and bewildered, which forced the Master to emphasize the objective truth of his words: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life within you” (Jn 6:53). This is no metaphorical food: “My flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed” (Jn 6:55).
17. Through our communion in his body and blood, Christ also grants us his Spirit. Saint Ephrem writes: “He called the bread his living body and he filled it with himself and his Spirit...
He who eats it with faith, eats Fire and Spirit... Take and eat this, all of you, and eat with it the Holy Spirit. For it is truly my body and whoever eats it will have eternal life”.27 The Church implores this divine Gift, the source of every other gift, in the Eucharistic epiclesis. In the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom, for example, we find the prayer: “We beseech, implore and beg you: send your Holy Spirit upon us all and upon these gifts... that those who partake of them may be purified in soul, receive the forgiveness of their sins, and share in the Holy Spirit”.28 And in the Roman Missal the celebrant prays: “grant that we who are nourished by his body and blood may be filled with his Holy Spirit, and become one body, one spirit in Christ”.29 Thus by the gift of his body and blood Christ increases within us the gift of his Spirit, already poured out in Baptism and bestowed as a “seal” in the sacrament of Confirmation.
18. The acclamation of the assembly following the consecration appropriately ends by expressing the eschatological thrust which marks the celebration of the Eucharist (cf. 1 Cor 11:26): “until you come in glory”. The Eucharist is a straining towards the goal, a foretaste of the fullness of joy promised by Christ (cf. Jn 15:11); it is in some way the anticipation of heaven, the “pledge of future glory”.30 In the Eucharist, everything speaks of confident waiting “in joyful hope for the coming of our Saviour, Jesus Christ”.31 Those who feed on Christ in the Eucharist need not wait until the hereafter to receive eternal life: they already possess it on earth, as the first-fruits of a future fullness which will embrace man in his totality. For in the Eucharist we also receive the pledge of our bodily resurrection at the end of the world: “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” (Jn 6:54). This pledge of the future resurrection comes from the fact that the flesh of the Son of Man, given as food, is his body in its glorious state after the resurrection. With the Eucharist we digest, as it were, the “secret” of the resurrection. For this reason Saint Ignatius of Antioch rightly defined the Eucharistic Bread as “a medicine of immortality, an antidote to death”.32
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