Posted on 04/06/2013 9:21:17 AM PDT by knarf
Dave will be greatly missed
...the typical shameful behavior of Catholic FReepers is once again on display for all to see.Isn't that so shameful?Between the Catholic liberals and Catholic FReepers, who would want to be part of such a religion?
And your answer is that Hunt is still dead.
Catholicism doesn't seem to do a very good job of teaching charity, manners, love, or respect for the dead.
The Protestant anti-Catholics seem incapable of distinguishing between the Sacrifice on the Cross and the application of that grace to our individual souls.
It is not finished or we would be perfect now. I am not, but i do expect to be made worthy to standin God’s Presence. We shall bechanged.
In Isaiah, the prophet has his mouth purified with coals. Do the math.
I did notice you gave references, but did not quote the Scriptures.
I'm not going to do your work for you, if you wish a response to scripture, post the scripture and the chapter and verse, not just one or the other.
I'm sure I can help you out with the Holy Spirit's take on them.
How blessed you were to meet him in this life, Texas Songwriter. Thank you for sharing this story. I know Mr. Hunt was a Godly treasure on Earth. He is indeed resting in Jesus right now, and he will rise up to his eternal reward on that last Day when Jesus calls.
You wrote:
“You are right, it was from McCarthy, big deal.”
The deal is that you didn’t bother to get it right. It wasn’t Church teaching. It was McCarthy.
“Here, read it from the horses mouth.”
It isn’t from Trent. Sheesh!
“Just because someone you don’t like quotes it, doesn’t make it untrue.”
It was not a quote, it was not a quote from Trent, it wasn’t from Vatican II. Beginning to get the picture?
“Catholics argue like Mormons, denying their own teachings.”
I have never denied any Catholic teaching. I deny your interpretation - the one you deny giving. Apparently you’re the one denying things like a Mormon.
“If you want, when you die you can go directly into the arms of Jesus.”
I do want that, and I pursue that, but rather imperfectly like most mortals. And in the end, it will be Jesus who will decide if I need purgation or not.
“Christians don’t have to endure anything at death.”
That’s not what some other Protestants believe. Ever read CS Lewis’ Screwtape Letters? Lewis, a Protestant, very clearly believed in Purgatory. Lewis wrote about a “process by which the work of redemption continues, and first perhaps begins to be noticeable after death”.
“New sins can be INSTANTLY forgiven by going to Jesus in prayer and repentance.”
Here again we see you clearly do not understand Christian theology. Christ already forgave all sins. Remember, “It is finished”. The issue is whether or not that forgiveness, which has already happened, has been applied to us yet. That’s what we ask for when we come to Jesus.
“If you wish to hold on to sins (endure) until you can confess formally to a man in holy garments, that is your choice.”
The “man in holy garments” merely does what St. Paul did in 2 Corinthians 2:10 as old Bibles word it: “To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the PERSON OF CHRIST”.
“If you wish to go through purgatory, maybe that is possible if you want it bad enough.”
Well, that’s a bizarre comment. You actually believe a person can create a state of purgation after death which you had previously denied existed merely because he wants “it bad enough”? Either Purgatory exists or it doesn’t - and it does. Here we see the usual relativism of Protestantism.
“My best to you.”
And the best to you - and that includes Purgatory if you need it. Cleansing with grace is a gift from God.
You wrote:
“I did notice you gave references, but did not quote the Scriptures.”
Does that change the truth of scripture? You do realize your excuse makes you look rather small, right?
“I’m not going to do your work for you, if you wish a response to scripture, post the scripture and the chapter and verse, not just one or the other.”
Okay, I will continue to just post verse numbers for you then. Suits me fine to let people see how you refuse to respond.
“I’m sure I can help you out with the Holy Spirit’s take on them.”
I’m sure you can’t since you’ve gotten so many things wrong so far. The Holy Spirit doesn’t misinterpret scripture. You do.
You wrote:
“It is not finished or we would be perfect now.”
I know! It’s amazing isn’t it? They just don’t seem to realize it.
The stone has been thrown into the pond, but the ripples have not hit every shore. Yet. We exist in time. God does not.
Yes, very basic stuff.
ping
There comes a point when we are expending our honest efforts futilely on people who cannot see or hear God's Word, as you well know.
God bless you, FRiend. Stand firm until the end.
If you can't find it in the link I gave you (Council of Trent: Catechism for Parish Priests) then OK. It's in there, from Catholic tradition.
You wanted a better source, I gave it to you.
Getting a bit personal, aren't you?You wrote:
“I did notice you gave references, but did not quote the Scriptures.”
Does that change the truth of scripture? You do realize your excuse makes you look rather small, right?
LOL, you posted NO truth of scripture, just numbers. I'm not going to look them up as I said, if you want to get a point across with scripture, do it with scripture, not just references.
Sorry, the quotes you will find in Catholic doctrine are NOT my interpretation, just words quoted which you don't wish to look at in Catholic context.
I gave you the link, I could copy and paste the words for you but you deny they exist apparently because they were quoted by someone you don't like.
Most of your post makes no sense re what I said, it seems to have been twisted quite a bit in order to put words in my mouth. It just goes around and around in an attempt to prove purgatory.
I'm sorry to get you so angry.
The issue is whether or not that forgiveness, which has already happened, has been applied to us yet. That’s what we ask for when we come to Jesus.Well are you ready to come to Jesus?
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you--Matt 7:7Jesus will take you just as you are.
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hears my voice, and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will eat with him, and he with me.--Rev 3:20
You can be cleansed by the grace of God.
Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.--Matt 5:48.
You’re the one who said you were quoting official Catholic documents when you were not. When called on it, you say, like Hilary Clinton “big deal.” “What difference does it make?”
It’s called “intellectual honesty.”
Until you admit your error, no one can take you seriously. You serve as a microcosm of your late hero’s similar intellectual honesty.
I thought I was.
I cleared that up.
The message is still the same from Trent, Vatican I and Vatican II.
Punishment in purgatory.
I certainly hope you are familiar with that teaching!
Jesus took it all when he went to the cross.
I disagree with you and Maccabee.
I suggest you don’t make people, mere men, into heroes.
My hero is Jesus.
Man, the hate on this thread for a Christian that just passed away is astounding.
Son of man, you dwell in the midst of a rebellious house, who have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.--Ezekiel 12:2Thanks for Galatians 1, how fitting. Paul is amazing.
Having eyes, see you not? and having ears, hear you not?...--Mark 8:18
I don’t think of it as punishment as much as being a bath of fire. It’s necessary. And it will happen.
Do you think you will enter God’s Presence in the exact same state you are in now?
You said that Jesus accepts you as you are. I agree with that, that we are loved as we are. But I also believe that Jesus will change me. He will purify me.
It won’t be pretty or easy.
But I will be purified at some point before I enter Heaven.
Do you disagree with that?
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
When we die, we give up the physical body and then reside in a spiritual body.
Take what I say as you will, my words are based on my study of the Bible.
You said that Jesus accepts you as you are. I agree with that, that we are loved as we are. But I also believe that Jesus will change me. He will purify me.Yes, he loves us just as we are, warts and all.
But He loves us too much to leave us that way.
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new Spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments, and do them." (Ezekiel 36:26-27)IMO, this is what happens when a person becomes a Christian. I know it happened to me.
I waited a long time and was very sincere when I finally realized that Jesus has the "formulae" for salvation and everlasting life.
I repented of my sins and gave my life over to Him.
He DID change out my heart. He did "purify" me. He took all of my sins and I was forgiven and cleansed, washed in the Blood of Jesus so to speak.
I was a new person, the old "man" was gone.
Romans 6:6--Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that we should no longer serve sin.
Then the process went on, and a lot of other things happened and it was fantastic. But that's another story...
I believe when we die we go to a spiritual "world" with God.
At that time we enter into a life without time, because God lives outside of time and I believe that is where he has us go.
So it's my understanding that there could be no "time" to spend in purgatory because time will not exist.
I don't need explained to me how purgatory works, I'm fine not knowing...
Do you think you will enter God’s Presence in the exact same state you are in now?
I don't think any Christian could answer that with an unqualified "yes" and so my answer is no.
I'm not sure how the transformation works, but I do know that God's ways are not our ways, and no matter how much we think we have it figured out, I really doubt it.
But I know that God does things in a "twinkling of an eye" and so I think that He has a way to work out our situation when we pass over to spend eternity in His presence.
Of course we have to be purified to enter into the presence of God, because He cannot look upon sin, which is why He sent His Son, Jesus.
I think the "pretty or easy" part will depend on what our walk with God is like at the moment we die.
(I don't expect you or others I have bumped heads with a bit on this thread to agree with all I have said.)
I appreciate the comments to me, and have actually gone a bit too far IMO as this thread isn't about me, you, other posters or divergence beliefs.
It's about mourning a Christian man that I have known about for years (along with the rest of the crew at The Berean Call) who passed away.
RIP Mr. Hunt.
I agree. Catholic thought agrees.
How about that?
I agree that someone's funeral thread is a bad time for any of this. But here we are, so I think I will take a mutual win at this point.
The main thing as this point is that you said you are "purified," while I believe that this process takes all of my life and some more.
So, at this point, and in the week of Easter, Good day.
Jesus Christ is Risen Today, Alleluia
Our triumphant Holy Day, Alleluia
Who did once upon the Cross, Alleluia
Suffer to redeem our loss, Alleluia
Are there different kinds of Catholic?
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