Q-poll: Catholic voters are leading the USA to same-sex marriage

Hotair ^ | 03/10/2013 | Ed Morrissey

[SeekAndFind]

Don't look at me --- I was the one arguing that the state should get out of the marriage business entirely, and that the only true state interest in marriage, from a secular point of view at least, is enforcing paternal responsibility, which has no connection to same-sex relationships. This latest poll from Quinnipiac only surprises me to the extent that Catholic voters seem to be ahead of the general population in redefining the legal definition of marriage while still identifying as Catholic:

American voter support for same-sex marriage is inching up and now stands at 47 --- 43 percent, including 54 ---- 38 percent among Catholic voters, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

This compares to a 48 – 46 percent statistical tie among all voters on same-sex marriage December 5 and reverses the 55 – 36 percent opposition in a July, 2008, survey by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University. …

“Catholic voters are leading American voters toward support for same-sex marriage,” said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. “Among all voters, there is almost no gender gap, but a big age gap. Voters 18 to 34 years old support same sex marriage 62 – 30 percent; voters 35 to 54 years old are divided 48 – 45 percent and voters over 55 are opposed 50 – 39 percent.["]

This seems surprising for two reasons. First, as a rule, the Catholic voting bloc doesn’t truly lead much anymore. They tend to just reflect the current status quo of the general electorate. This kind of gap from the topline finding is unusual, and perhaps speaks to the demographics of self-identifying Catholics in the US — more centralized in urban areas, trending younger, but perhaps more culturally and ethnically identified than practicing. Only 31% in this sample attend Mass every week, and another 12% “almost” every week. By contrast, 39% either “never” attend Mass or only attend a few times a year, with 18% only attending “once or twice a month.”

The other surprise is the significant majority presented in this poll that is willing to let the state redefine what is a sacrament in the religion with which these voters are affiliated. It’s certainly intellectually possible to separate the church function in marriage from the state function, and a good number of decent and well-intentioned members of my faith make that argument. Unfortunately, in the real world, those functions have been linked, and it’s not too difficult to see what will happen in the future if the state redefines marriage. Eventually, a refusal to perform these unions will result in state sanctions and potentially the end of the ability of the church to perform one of its core sacramental duties; the HHS contraception mandate shows the demands popular culture will make on those of faith, and the penalties for refusal.

Also, not to hammer the point unnecessarily, but marriage in the Catholic faith is not a utilitarian tool for worldly pleasure. It’s a mirror of the internal life of the Trinity, which like its progenitor creates life and operates on both a material and spiritual plane to help us attain the holiness that will eventually (we certainly hope) bring us into that Trinitarian presence for eternity. That’s why it’s considered a sacrament, and why the Church teaches that marriages have to be open to new life in order to operate in a fully sacramental way — which, by the way, is the reason that the next Pope isn’t going to bless same-sex marriage or contraception, no matter how much the media wants it. Now, secular voters aren’t required to believe this, but one might think that Catholic voters would. The question of whether they have been taught this by their churches is certainly open to debate, however.

Yesterday I met author Christopher Ferrara, who wrote a provocative book called Liberty, the God That Failed: Policing the Sacred and Constructing the Myths of the Secular State, from Locke to Obama, which explores some of these issues. Chris is also president and chief counsel of the American Catholic Lawyers Association, which takes the cases of Catholics facing legal action for living their faith in the world, especially focused on pro-life issues. Chris and I discussed these issues yesterday at the media center here at the Vatican:

I may catch up with Chris later to discuss more of the issues facing this conclave and the Catholic Church in the US.

[daniel1212]

They should have disaggregated it on this ?, but the argument that this is important in order to separate true Cs from false ones is also a problem, as Rome treats the nominal as members in life and in death, as the Catholic funeral for Chavez just exampled, who could have been excluded based on strict adherence to canon law. See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2995066/posts?page=126#126 and links.

Meanwhile, many surveys testify to the overall liberal status of Catholics: http://www.peacebyjesus.com/RC-Stats_vs._Evang.html

[daniel1212]

As long as Rome counts and treats them as members in life and in death (Kennedy, Chavez) , then you are simply protesting against them. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2995066/posts?page=15#15

[daniel1212]

Latino Evangelicals are 50% more likely than those who are Catholics to identify with the Republican Party, and are significantly more conservative than Catholics on social issues, foreign policy issues and even in their attitudes toward the plight of the poor. http://pewforum.org/surveys/hispanic

White, non-Hispanic Catholics express about as much support for same-sex marriage as Hispanic Catholics do (53% and 54%, respectively). White evangelical Protestants are more opposed to gay marriage (76%) than are Hispanic evangelical Protestants (66%). http://www.pewforum.org/Race/Latinos-Religion-and-Campaign-2012.aspx

As for black Prots, they do not differentiate btwn evangelicals and mainline type black Prots, but race and welfare seems to trump faith. Likewise among black RCs also.

[Salvation]

Daniel,
This is where Catholic thinking and evangelical thinking diverge.

There are many deathbed conversions. I suspect it happens in non-Catholic families too.

We have no idea if someone like Ted Kennedy confessed his sins and was forgiven as he was dying. I do remember a priest visiting him. That does not mean he has tons of reparation to make up in Purgatory.

Are you aware of non-Catholics for whom families have prayed to come back to Christ — that they do, indeed, convert on their deathbeds?

We’ll just have to let God be the judge.

[tiki]

We can be pretty sure that Protestant blacks and hispanics voted for Obama in greater percentages than Catholic blacks and hispanics but, you know, it really doesn’t matter. It is the straw man that they want to put out there to put Catholics down. You know, splinter/log.

I am very happy that so many of you freeper Catholics fight the good fight everyday but I have resorted to prayer. We know the Church will suffer, we know trusted people will betray her, we know that people who hate the Church will try to destroy it, we know that will never happen, God is in charge and will remain so for eternity.

God has given many of the Catholics on this forum great gifts of knowledge and I am so grateful to God for them but I know my limits. I have an atheist brother who tries to argue with me but I know that I can never really win an argument with him. He could come out bloody and broken looking like a total fool and a jackass and would declare himself the winner.

What I do try to do is always live like a good Catholic Christian.

[redgolum]

Like most groups, they vote as a “tribe”. What is interesting is that black Protestants and Catholics are more opposed to gay marriage if it is listed as a separate line item than their white counter parts. But they are more likely to vote for Democrats because that is viewed as their party.

The trick is to get gay marriage to be a separate line item on the ballot.

[SuziQ]

The only ‘Catholic’ voters for homosexual ‘marriage’ are the ones who focus on “Social Justice” issues, and can’t be bothered with all those silly rules about sex and abortion, and stuff like that.

[SuziQ]

The breakdown is pretty illustrative of exactly how serious these Catholics are who are supportive of homosexual marriage. The answer is ‘not very’.

[daniel1212]

I do not see where i have argued against the possibility of death bed conversions, which happens and i hope for many, but as you know i disagree with the purgatory possibility.

[daniel1212]

I do not see where i have argued against the possibility of death bed conversions, which happens and i hope for many, but as you know i disagree with the purgatory possibility.

[Impy]

I smell feces, check that faeces. The British way of spelling it looks stinkier.