Posted on 02/22/2013 11:42:14 AM PST by Colofornian
Edited on 02/22/2013 11:44:08 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
DAVIS COUNTY, Utah
(Excerpt) Read more at fox13now.com ...
“In the Religion forum, on a thread titled LDS missionary charged with child rape, FourtySeven wrote:
Isn’t all sin the same to God?”
Actually, no.
And here you are not loving your neighbor (as yourself, I guess it could be that you do not like yourself much), and throwing stones at them - tsk tsk tsk
100+ amens to that comment.
The one man war of hate waged by the Stuperhuman Colofornicator
WilliamRobert indicates on his home FREEPER page that he is "LDS."
What are "THE" positions LDS leaders have held toward Christians and Christianity? Read these for yourself and see how hostile they are:
Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: "The church of the devil is the world; it is all the carnality and evil to which fallen man is heir; it is every unholy and wicked practice; it is every false religion, every supposed system of salvation which does not actually save and exalt man in the highest heaven of the celestial world. It is EVERY CHURCH except the true church, whether parading under a Christian or a pagan banner." (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3:551)
Note, per Mormon doctrine, the "only true and living church on the face of the earth" is the Mormon church (D&C 1:30).
Q How do we know that the official Lds church approves of McConkie's interpretation given above?
A:
#1...he was an "apostle";
#2, the Doctrinal New Testament Commentary was cited by the official Mormon church as a commentary to 1 Nephi 14:10 for its widely distributed teachings of college students: The church of JC LDS: Seminaries and Institutes of Religion: Book of Mormon Student Manual: Chapter 4: 1Nephi 11–14: Notes and Commentary
* Note...McConkie's resource was also cited among study guides commonly used in the Mormon church as published by Cedar Fort out of Springville, Utah...in these two 2007 books:
* Randal S. Chase, Making Precious Things Plain: A Book of Mormon Study Guide: Volume 1: 1 Nephi-Alma 16 Cedar Fort, Springville, UT, 2007 p. 40
* K. Douglas Bassett, PhD, Doctrinal Insights to the Book of Mormon: Vol. 1: 1 Nephi through 2 Nephi Cedar Fort, Springville, UT 2007, pp. 62-63
Also, less than 30 years ago -- Official Lds church magazine, Ensign:
The “man of sin,” generally equated with Satan, would exalt himself over all that is divine and assume the place of God in the Church. Of historical and theological significance is the fact that in Paul’s prophecy the church structure survives. But God is not at its head, making that church—following the appearance in it of Satan—no longer the church of God....How appropriate, therefore, is Paul’s description of him sitting in the place of God in the church of the apostasía. Kent P. Jackson, Signs of the Early Apostasy, Ensign, December 1984 Signs of the Early Apostasy
This BYU professor is commenting on 2 Thess. 2:1-12 here...which Christian commentators reference as future. Lds leaders constantly reference 2 Thess. 2:1-12 as past tense -- evidence of the great apostasy...Jackson calls it a "drastic" apostasy. Lds doctrine is that it was total or all but a handful...and those handful were never "public."
Q What other Institute teachings are there about Christians currently taught to Mormon college students:
A:
* A universal [absolute world-wide] apostasy occurred...“...an absolute apostasy of the Church...” [Lds "apostle" James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ] {See this & similar quotes here: The Apostasy [What Lds believe re: Christians: Label us 'apostates' like Islam calls us 'infidels']}
Q And what does the Lds church officially teach its high school students...?
A The “church of the devil” does not refer to a specific church but to any person, group, organization, or philosophy that works against the Church of Jesus Christ and the salvation of the children of God.
Source: Official Mormon 'Seminary' (high school) teachings on 1 Nephi 14
WilliamRobert indicates on his home FREEPER page that he is "LDS."
What are "THE" positions LDS leaders have held toward Christians and Christianity?
You can also read this FAQ & determine how hostile Lds leaders have been toward those of other faiths:
Who are the Christians, and what is Christianity, per Mormonism?
An 'Interview' Across the Generations with the mouthpieces of the Mormon god, the Lds 'prophets' and 'apostles':
Questions Re: the gods of Mormonism and Christianity: Distinct or same?
Q. Who is the Christian Jesus?
A. Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie: ...virtually ALL the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269).
Q. Do Mormons worship the same Jesus as do Christians?
* Lds "prophet" Gordon B. Hinckley: “There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998)
* Hinckley: As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. ("We Look to Christ", April 2002 General Conference.)
* Official Lds publication The Ensign “It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons.” (May 1977, p. 26)
Q: Who is the Christian God?
A: Lds "prophet" Brigham Young: The "Christian God is the Mormon's Devil..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, p. 331).
* Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie: "The gods of Christendom, for instance, are gods who were created by men in the creeds of an apostate people. There is little profit or peace in serving them, and certainly there is no salvation available through them" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pg.545).
Q. Do Mormons worship the same god as Christians?
A. Lds director of church's Melchizedek priesthood department, William O. Nelson: "Some who write anti-Mormon pamphlets insist that the Latter-day Saint concept of Deity is contrary to what is recognized in traditional Chrisitan doctrine. In this they are quite correct." (A Sure Foundation: Answers to Difficult Gospel Questions, p. 93)
* Lds "apostle" Charles W. Penrose: “…the God whom the ‘Christians’ worship is a being of their own creation…” (Journal of Discourses 23:243).
* Lds general authority B.H. Roberts: “…orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian.” (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, p.116).
Who are the Christians, and what is Christianity, per Mormonism?
An 'Interview' Across the Generations with the mouthpieces of the Mormon god, the Lds 'prophets' and 'apostles':
Questions re: What is the Devil's role and association with the Christian church per Mormonism?
Q. Who inspires Christians?
A. Joseph Smith: "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
* Joseph Smith, Jr.: “…all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels.” (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60).
Q. Where did Christianity -- whatever its form between 100 & 200 AD -->19th century -- originate?
A. Lds "apostle"-turned-"prophet" John Taylor, who was with Joseph Smith when Smith died: Christianity was "hatched in hell" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 176)...
* Lds "prophet" Brigham Young: “Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.” (Journal of Discourses 6:176).
* Taylor: Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century," (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.167);
Q. Who is classified as part of the "church of the devil" according to the Book of Mormon?
A. BYU professor Kent B. Jackson: "Since whoever does not belong to 'the church of the Lamb of God' belongs to 'the church of the devil,' as Nephi announced then all systems of worship outside of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be classified as 'the church of the devil' by Nephi's definition (Kent B. Jackson, "Watch and Remember" etc. from publication By Study and Also by Faith: Essays in Honor of Hugh W. Nibley on the Occasion of His Eightieth Birthday, 3/27/90, vol. 1, p. 87, citing 1 Nephi 14:9-10 from the Book of Mormon)
Q. What is the church of the devil in our day?
A. Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: "What is the church of the devil in our day, and where is the seat of her power?.... It is ALL of the systems, both Christian and non-Christian, that perverted the pure and perfect gospel....It is communism; it is Islam; it is Buddhism; it is modern Christianity in all its parts. It is Germany under Hitler, Russia under Stalin, and Italy under Mussolini." (The Millennial Messiah, pp. 54-55.)
* Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: "The church of the devil is the world; it is all the carnality and evil to which fallen man is heir; it is every unholy and wicked practice; it is every false religion, every supposed system of salvation which does not actually save and exalt man in the highest heaven of the celestial world. It is every church except the true church, whether parading under a Christian or a pagan banner." (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3:551)
Q. This last comment of yours? Is that still taught by the official Mormon church in its official curricula in official Institute classes to college students?
Q. So you're saying that...
A.McConkie: "...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)
Who are the Christians, and what is Christianity, per Mormonism?
An 'Interview' Across the Generations with the mouthpieces of the Mormon god, the Lds 'prophets' and 'apostles':
Questions Re: How is Christ's church described as it pertains to Mormons and Christians. Questions of legitimacy and authority.
Q. While we all know not every member of a Christian church is a true Christian, what difference is there between Christians in Christian churches and Mormons who reference themselves as 'Christians?'
A. Brigham Young: "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
Q: Do LDS considers themselves one legitimate church among many?
Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: "Mormonism is Christianity; Christianity is Mormonism; they are one and the same, and they are not to be distinguished from each other in the minutest detail ...Mormons are true Christians; their worship is the pure, unadulterated Christianity authored by Christ and accepted by Peter, James, and John and all the ancient saints." (Mormon Doctrine, p. 513).
Q: Does that mean if all Mormons are Christians then all Christians are Mormons. Is that right?
A: (You weren't listening...I 'just' answered that:) Lds "prophet" Brigham Young: "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are NOT Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity." (Journal of Discourses 10:230.) Q. Is the Mormon church the only true church then? Are all the other ones false?
A. Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: "This [the LDS] Church...is the ONLY only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" (Doctrine and Covenants 1:30).
* Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson, who served in the Eisenhower administration: "This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth..." (Teachings of LDS prophet Ezra Taft Benson, p.164-165).
* Lds "apostle"-turned-"prophet" John Taylor: "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand?… You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses 6:24).
* Lds "prophet' Spencer W. Kimball: "This is the only true church ...This is not a church. This is the Church of Jesus Christ. There are churches of men all over the land and they have great cathedrals, synagogues, and other houses of worship running into the hundreds of millions of dollars. They are churches of men. They teach the doctrines of men, combined with the philosophies and ethics and other ideas and ideals that men have partly developed and partly found in sacred places and interpreted for themselves" (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 421).
Who are the Christians, and what is Christianity, per Mormonism?
An 'Interview' Across the Generations with the mouthpieces of the Mormon god, the Lds 'prophets' and 'apostles':
Questions Re: Does salvation exist outside Joseph Smith & the Mormon church?
Q. So unless I join the Mormon church -- or unless the Mormon church necro-baptizes me -- I cannot be saved?
A. Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie: This Church is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth .... there is NO salvation outside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670)
* "The only organization authorized by the Almighty to preach his gospel and administer the ordinances of salvation, the only Church which has power to save" (Mormon Doctrine; 1977 ed, p. 136).
Q. Well, then is Jesus the Savior -- and He can people no matter what church they are in at the time? Isn't He the way, the truth and the life per John 14:6?
A. President (member of the First Presidency) Marion G. Romney: "This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life" (Conference Report, April, 1961, p. 119)]
* "We cannot accept that any other church can lead its members to salvation." (The Masters Church, Course A, Mormon Sunday School text.)
Q. 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?"
A. Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
* Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie: “Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls." (Mormon Doctrine, p.177)
* Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith: "...no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190).
Who are the Christians, and what is Christianity, per Mormonism?
An 'Interview' Across the Generations with the mouthpieces of the Mormon god, the Lds 'prophets' and 'apostles':
Questions Re: The so-called 'apostasy' and vile associative words to describe the Christian church.
Q. What then, are the rest of the churches? Apostates? Did they bring light to the world?
A.Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith (10th LDS President) -- "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation that was not, in the year 1820, so obscured by false tradition and ceremonies, borrowed from paganism, as to make it unrecognizable; or else it was entirely denied ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that ALL the `Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation 3:282).
* Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p. 265).
* Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie: "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403).
* Lds "prophet" Brigham Young: "when the light came to me I saw that ALL the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73).
* "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132).
Q. Come on now. Cant't we at least commend some of the teachings of the Christian church as "truth" and "light" to the world?
A. Lds "prophet" Brigham Young: "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199)
* Young: "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171);
* Young: "What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast." (Journal of Discourses 6:25).
* Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie: "In large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed before the Unknown God, and to whom Paul said: "Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 374).
Q. When the so-called Great Apostasy hit the early Christian church, would you say the Christian church was still better off then -- or 17 centuries later?
A. Lds "apostle" Orson Pratt: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44)
Q. What if it was determined not ALL of the churches apostatized before 1830? What's the significance of that?
A. Official Lds church statement: “The Lord provided that salvation should come through his gospel, functioning through his church…But is there such a church?…Is there such a church upon the earth? Until 1830 there was not. It had been lost through the falling away we have described in this pamphlet. In 1830 the Almighty restored his church to earth again.” (Which Church is Right?, p. 17).
* Lds "apostle" James Talmadge: "The significance and importance of the great apostasy, as a condition precedent to the re-establishment of the Church in modern times, is obvious. If the alleged apostasy of the primitive Church was not a reality, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not the divine institution its name proclaims" (The Great Apostasy, preface).
* A. Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith (10th LDS President) -- "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation that was not, in the year 1820, so obscured by false tradition and ceremonies, borrowed from paganism, as to make it unrecognizable; or else it was entirely denied ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that ALL the `Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation 3:282).
Q. So you're saying the apostasy of the Christians and Christian churches was complete? Universal?
A. Lds general authority B.H. Roberts: "Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Introduction to the History of the Church 1:XL).
* "This is a fundamental belief of the Latter-day Saints. If there had not been an apostasy, there would have been no need for a restoration." (Kent P. Jackson, Ensign, Dec 1984 Early Signs of the Apostasy)
* Lds "apostle" James Talmadge: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ ...From the facts already stated it is evident that the Church was literally driven from the earth; in the first ten centuries immediately following the ministry of Christ the authority of the Holy Priesthood was lost among men, and no human power could restore it" (The Articles of Faith, pp.200,203).
* Official Lds church manual: “The period of time when the true Church no longer existed on earth is called the Great Apostasy. Soon pagan beliefs dominated the thinking of those called Christians. The Roman emperor adopted this false Christianity as the state religion. The church was very different from the Church Jesus organized. It taught that God was a being without substance" (Gospel Principles, 2009, p.92).
* Lds "apostle" Orson Pratt: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance, and they are represented in the revelations of St. John as a woman sitting upon a scarlet colored beast, having a golden cup in her hand, full of filthiness and abominations, full of the wine of the wrath of her fornication; that in her forehead there was a name written - `Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots'" (Journal of Discourses 18:172).
Q. Go ahead and let it out. How do you really feel about Christians?
A. Lds "apostle" Orson Pratt: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
Q. Oh. Can you define "whore" or "harlot" for us, as applied to the Christian church?
A. Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie: "Harlots. See Church of the Devil, Sex Immorality. Literally a harlot is a prostitute; figuratively it is ANY apostate church. Nephi, speaking of harlots in the literal sense and while giving a prophetic description of the Catholic Church, recorded that he 'saw the devil that he was the foundation of it.' ... Then speaking of harlots in the figurative sense, he designated the Catholic Church as 'the mother of harlots' (1 Nephi 13:34; 14:15-17), a title which means that the protestant churches, the harlot daughters which broke off from the great and abominable church, would themselves be apostate churches." (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 314-315, 1958 edition)
* Lds "apostle"-turned-"prophet" John Taylor: "'The present Christian world exists and continues by division. The MYSTERY of Babylon the great, is mother of harlots and abominations of the earth, and it needs no prophetic vision, to unravel such mysteries. The old church is the mother, and the protestants are the lewd daughters. Alas! alas! what doctrine, what principle, or what scheme, in all, what prayers, what devotion, or what faith, `since the fathers have fallen asleep,' has opened the heavens; has brought men into the presence of God; and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to an innumerable company of angels? The answer is, not any: "There is none in all christendom that doeth good; no, not one."' (Times and Seasons, Vol.6, No.1, p.811, Feb. 15, 1845)
Q. So it's from the Book of Mormon that this Mormon "apostle" derived this connection of "harlot" to the Christian church?
A. * "abominable church...whore of all the earth" (2 Nephi 28:18);
* "whore of all the earth" (2 Nephi 10:16)
* ”And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people...their dominions upon the face of the earth were small because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.” (1 Nephi 14:10-12)
* George Q. Cannon, member of First Presidency with four different Lds "prophets": "AFTER the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, pg.324).
WilliamRobert indicates on his home FREEPER page that he is "LDS."
Are Lds told to "leave Christians alone?" No:
One reason as to why we approach Mormons has to do with a counterbalance to what Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball was quoted as saying 30 years ago in an official Lds Church publication:
"President Kimball...said: 'The Lord has said that when you have been warned to warn our neighbor. Now that comes as a command to all of us. It isn't left to our discretion and our pleasure. Every member should have a determination that he will take the gospel to others. If he does not, he must consider that he is not in total favor of his Heavenly Father, because He has commanded us to do so. ('Proselyting is Urgent Matter,' Church News, 14 June 1980, p. 3. p. 15 cited Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983)
Hence, just as Lds have been COMMANDED by their so-called "prophets" to assume the initiative with us; therefore, how can Lds complain when we assume the initiative with them??!
Wow that’s cute, come up with that yourself did ya...
The guy may have done it, but unless there was some physical evidence, or witnesses who could state specific times and places, i would not vote to convict. Merely claiming it was within a designated long time period would not be enough for me.
Anyone who claims a young teenage girl wouldn’t lie about something like this to maybe get out of trouble, does not know teenage girls.
It’s the one crime for which someone can be convicted without witnesses or physical evidence.
Right he may have done some thing. BTW this is a 10 year old at the time. To much sealed evidence for now. Need to wait for trial before he is hung.
Right he may have done some thing. BTW this is a 10 year old at the time. To much sealed evidence for now. Need to wait for trial before he is hung.
Trial was trial “LDS missionary” is enough proof to hang.
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