Why Mormonism will Surrender to Homosexuality

The Mormonism Research Ministry is a missionary/apologetics organization organized in 1979 to propagate the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to critically evaluate the differences between Mormonism and biblical Christianity. Of the many crucial differences, the Mormon rejection of the Genesis account of supernatural creation ex nihilo in favor of a naturalistic account is just one of many pressing differences.

MRM reveals that Joseph Smith taught that matter is eternal and the Mormon God Elohim had no power to create out of nothing. Elohim merely reorganized already present elements, which have no beginning or end and cannot be destroyed:

"Since Mormons believe that the elements are eternal, it follows that they deny the ex nihilo creation." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism 1:400).

From this it follows that a mere man can become God, as the great Mormon prophet Joseph Smith explains:

"It is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and suppose that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did... Here then, is eternal life – to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priest to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one. . . . (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-47

The Mormon God is a creature from within creation (nature). In fact, Mormon scripture states that he is merely a physical, exalted man who lives on a planet near the great star Kolob where he and his wives busily procreate millions of spirit children who are sent into this material realm of suffering and evil to live according to the laws of the gospel and thereby earn their own godhood over their own planet:

"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us." (D&C 310:22, Ed Decker, "The Lesser gods of Mormonism")

In the Genesis account the living, supernatural Triune God created all things ex-nihilo, or out of nothing. He is self-existent, eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. He is the sovereign Lord of the universe. He is the God of all creation. He is the God who stands outside of the space-time dimension, thus creation actually began before time came to be as God spoke life, soul/spirit, matter and all else out of nothing. The living, supernatural God is the First Cause of all things. (Psalm 33:6; John 1:3; Romans 4:17; Hebrews 11:3):

"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." Col. 1:16, 17

In the "Pagan Temptation," Christian scholar Thomas Molnar reports that the idea that matter is eternal is a pattern of thought stretching back to the ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, and Greeks in the West and in the East to the Upanishads:

"Matter is regarded as the opposite of God, equal to him or even greater in power, and thus absolutely evil. All of the great philosophers of Greece believed this....with the exception of Aristotle (and the materialists, of course.)" (P. 26)

In this way of thinking, everything somehow emerged out of either eternally existing matter as the ancients and Joseph Smith taught, or in contemporary terms from out of spontaneously-generated matter.

From the Babylonians forward, primordial matter has gone by many names. For example: divine One Substance, watery abyss, chaos, or void.

The Egyptian Sun-God Ra emerged (created himself) from out of Nu – the divine One Substance (primordial matter) and then as Joseph Smith recounts, became God "by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one:"

"I came into being from primordial matter...I made all the forms under which I appeared by means of (or out of) the god-soul which I raised up out of Nu (i.e., the primeval abyss of water.)" (The Long War Against God, Dr. Henry Morris, p. 243

In all pagan systems that speak of pre-existent matter as "spirit," Molnar writes that spirit is not personal. It is neither male nor female. It does not live, think or speak; it merely is. The human soul therefore is not created in the spiritual image of the living God Who exists outside of the time-space dimension (nature) Who Spoke and revealed Himself to man, thus it follows that humans are neither male nor female and that,

"Thought, reflection, and discursive reason entered the world through humanity..." (p. 30)

This is naturalism or materialism, which is the belief – taught by Joseph Smith – that there is neither living supernatural God nor heavenly realm outside of the space-time dimension. There is only the natural dimension.

Materialism is held in common by pantheism and spiritualism and dates back to pagan antiquity and was or is taught by all non-Biblical – but more specifically, non-Genesis account (creation ex nihilo) – thought systems.

At the heart of ancient and contemporary naturalism is monism, which refers to the view that pre-existent or spontaneously generated matter is the Ultimate Substance of which the universe and all life are made, therefore as the ancient Hermetic magic formula decrees, "as above, so below," or all is one.

In his book, "The God of Sex: How Spirituality Defines Your Sexuality," Dr. Peter Jones writes that pagan monism,

"(is) a mystical, unitive experience, a state in which distinctions disappear and opposites are joined. Androgyny, on a sexual level, reflects and confirms such an experience." (ibid, p.79)

Writing during the student revolution of the 1960s, Francis Schaeffer saw a transformation of consciousness permeating and overtaking the Western mindset, moving it away from the Christian ideal to the pagan model:

"Some forms of homosexuality today...are a philosophic expression...a denial of the antithesis. It has led in this case to an obliteration of the distinction between man and woman. So the male and the female as complimentary partners are finished." (The God of Sex: How Spirituality Defines Your Sexuality, Dr. Peter Jones, pp. 78-79)

As male and female distinctions drain into androgyny, the use of toddlers, older children and even babies for the sexual satisfaction of adults will not only be tolerated but prized, hence the pagan sage Xenophon declared:

"I must now speak of pederasty, for it affects education." (The One and the Many, Rousas John Rushdoony, p. 73)

"Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me." John 14:

The unresolvable problem for all nature systems, and this includes Mormonism, is the ultimate origin of life and soul/spirit. This is why contemporary naturalists such as SETI researcher Paul Davies and Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the DNA molecule, have rejected abiogenesis, the idea that brute matter spontaneously generated itself from nothing, in favor of panspermia.

Panspermia is the vain idea that life on earth was accidentally seeded by meteorites containing the essential building blocks of life or perhaps by highly evolved extraterrestrials from deep space who for billions of years have been guiding the evolution of man. The extraterrestrial idea was favored by Arthur C. Clarke in his book, "Childhood's End" and a variation on this theme has recently been advanced by Davies, Crick, and Ralph Pudritz of McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario.

Crick however admits that panspermia only pushes the unresolvable problem out into deep space:

"This scenario still leaves open the question of who designed the designer [aliens] – how did life originally originate?" (Crick, Life Itself: Its Origin and Nature, 1981)

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14

The revolutionary impact of the Christian teaching about creation ex nihilo and the Incarnation was nothing less than a scandal for pagan sages just as it is for 'new' pagan evolutionary materialists (i.e., Karl Marx, Freud), evolutionary pantheists like Hegel, Blavatsky, and Luciferian Theosophists, as well as for both pre-Christian and Christian-era Gnostic's and Mormon prophet Joseph Smith.

"...the spiritual being par excellence, should assume materiality – a thought as distasteful to their contemporaries as the idea of creation ex nihilo, which meant that matter too was God's creation and did not preexist creation as a separate and evil principle." (pp. 26-27)

In company with pagan sages, Mormonism rejects creation ex nihilo and the Incarnation. While faithful Christians adhere to the fact that Christ's birth was the result of a miraculous conception, that Mary was a virgin yet still conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18), according to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism,

"Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons and daughters of Elohim." (4:1676; Mormonism Research Ministry)

The LDS Church manual Gospel Principles makes clear that all men and women are children of the man-god Elohim:

"All men and women are literally sons and daughters of Deity." (2009, p. 9; ibid)

This includes the Mormon Jesus, who according to Sixth LDS President Joseph F. Smith was,

"Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors" (Gospel Doctrine, p.70; ibid).

So both Jesus (Jehovah) and his spirit-brother Lucifer were birthed by the man-god Elohim who lives near the great star Kolob. Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball comments,

"Long before you were born a program was developed by your creators ... The principal personalities in this great drama were a Father Elohim, perfect in wisdom, judgment, and person, and two sons, Lucifer and Jehovah." (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, pp. 32-33; Mormonism Research Ministry).

Putting all of this together, the Mormon man-god Elohim emerged (created himself) out of eternally existing matter much like the ancient Egyptian's self-created Sun-God Ra. And as with all ancient nature origin accounts, the Mormon man-god cannot account for either the ultimate origin of life or man's soul/spirit:

"The essence of the human is not the body, but the soul. It is the soul alone that God made in his own image and the soul that he loves....For the sake of the soul...the Son of God came into the world...." (Incomplete Work on Matthew, Homily 25, Ancient Christian Devotional, Oden and Crosby, p. 153)

Nor can it ultimately account for the two created sexes, male and female, since all things – including the Mormon man-god Elohim – somehow emerged out of genderless spirit (pre-existing matter). Thus like their ancient counterparts, Mormonism is fated to give way before the demands of gender-neutral homosexuality.

"Attorneys for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are in quiet discussions with leaders of Utah's gay and lesbian community, trying to hammer out language for a statewide ban on housing and employment discrimination that the church could support. Sen. Curt Bramble, R-Provo, opened a bill file on Thursday – the last day to request attorneys draft legislation – titled Housing and Employment Amendments and will sponsor the legislation should an agreement be reached." (Mormon Church Working on Bill to Protect Gays From Discrimination, hypervocal.com)

And while LDS attorneys hammer out tolerance policies with the gay and lesbian community, the Boy Scouts meanwhile, have put off deciding whether to reverse its long-standing policy regarding open homosexuality. The BSA's indecision is hailed by some as a strong stand, by 'gay' supporters as intolerant and bigoted. (Boy Scouts Stand Strong, Delay Potential Policy Reversal, Walker & Messner, heritage.org, 2/7/2013)

By whatever label – homosexual, gay, man-boy-lover, transgender, drag queen, bi-sexual – androgyny and nature systems go together like a hand and glove. Prior to Jesus Christ's earthly ministry pagan sages generally taught and practiced some form of gender-neutrality in keeping with their belief that pre-existent matter is the gender-free "one substance" out of which all things emerged. But when Jesus Christ – fully man-fully God – walked this earth, nature sages came face to face with the awful truth that God really exists, and further, that He really did create just two distinct sexes, male and female.

Nature philosophers and high priests had exchanged the truth about God for a lie (Romans 1:25-27). Writing in agreement, early Church Father Athanasius reveals that pride preceded man's fall into nature worship. A haughty spirit led them to disregard the higher things of God and seek in preference lower things here in the natural dimension.

"...is that it originates, and resides, in the perverted choice of the darkened soul "which, materialized by forgetting God," and engrossed in lower things (i.e. matter, chemicals, DNA) "makes them into gods" and thereby "descends into a hopeless depth of delusion and superstition" whereby "they ceased to think that anything existed beyond what is seen (naturalism)....so turning away and forgetting that she was made in the image of the good God...sees no longer the Word after whose likeness she is made...." (Against the Heathen, New Advent)

Ideas have consequences. For Mormonism – as with evolutionary materialism, its secular derivatives and occult 'green' pantheist New Age spirituality – the predisposing corruption resides in foundational ideations. Thus in the rejection of the supernatural Triune God of Revelation together with the Genesis account of creation ex nihilo resides the inability to account for the origin of life, of man's soul/spirit (reason, will, conscience), immutable truth, moral absolutes, fixed meaning, and purpose (Psalm 115:4-8).

And with the rejection of the Incarnation (the historical Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity), comes the inability to logically account for and defend the two sexes. Thus the fate of Mormonism together with evolutionary materialism and occult pantheism is to not only fall into moral relativism and superstition but to eventually give way to the demands of unrestrained libido – including the use of children for the sexual gratification of adults. And these are the crimes against nature said Augustine,

"(which are the) crimes of the men of Sodom (and if) all nations in the world committed them they would all stand guilty of the same crime against the Law of God, which did not design men so that they should use each other this way." (Confessions of St. Augustine, p. 49)

Stop reading somebody else’s word and look to God's Word.

John 1 (niv)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

I don’t like the religion of Mormonism, but I live the homosexual “religion” even less, so Mormonism succumbing to the gay mafia is not good in my book

It's my prayer that you'll STOP altogether.

(I know; but the Devil made me do it! ;^)

I simply used our common belief in the Bible to discuss your misconception about the creation story.

Nothing wrong with this; but you DO realize that GOD has a LOT more to say about things; right??

--MormonDude(May I call you my friend?)

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/elsieel/MormonCereal_zpsbbc97031.jpghttp://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/elsieel/MormonCereal_zpsbbc97031.jpghttp://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/elsieel/MormonCereal_zpsbbc97031.jpghttp://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/elsieel/MormonCereal_zpsbbc97031.jpghttp://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss354/elsieel/MormonCereal_zpsbbc97031.jpg

Like I said, interesting...

A self-proclaimed polymath who cannot answer a simple question....

Nothing of the Bible bothers me, indeed its clarity goes back to the original argument. God created the heavens and the Earth, very clear...

Avoidance can be an effective defense mechanism, yet aren’t Gen. 1:1-3 as presented to you not a part of the Holy Bible?

Just as much as...

Genesis 3:1

Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ...

To all who know that God transcends His creation, is all-powerful, and neither co-equal with or limited by matter, Gen. ex nihilo is abundantly clear. But for all who worship matter it is apriori not clear.

You have made it very clear that you worship matter and a limited god-man who supposedly emerged out of matter over time much like the Egyptian Sun-God Ra. The god you call holy, and who perhaps you hope to become like, is merely an idol you speak for, so of course your idol speaks against creation ex nihlo but wholeheartedly approves of pre-existent matter.

Gen 1:2 is reasonably read as matter pre-Genesis. God acts upon it and then the creation begins. You can accept your reading, but what I’ve done is critical and powerful.

I’ve proven that ex nihilo is simply an interpretation, not the only conclusion. It is possible that matter existed pre-Genesis and in my opinion probable.

That matter existed prior to the narrative in Genesis does nothing to reduce the power, authority or majesty of God. I would also postulate that you know as much about God, creation and His purposes as an ant does about a wristwatch.

Recognize that throughout this discussion you’ve not referenced the Bible to support your view. You’ve not refuted any of my arguments. That’s because you cannot. You can only express an opinoin that is based on the opinions of other men, not the Bible’s own text.

From now on you cannot arbitrarily spout a lie that it is impossible that matter existed pre-Genesis. That’s what really matters. Can you learn?

We agree that God transcends His creation, is all-powerful and is not co-equal to or limited by matter. Ex nihilo is not abundantly clear. In fact, I've proved that it is not even a reasonable reading of Genesis 1:1-3.

Are you familiar with the meaning of the word abunantly? If you can prove your case with abundant evidence then do so. Otherwise, admit you're wrong and go on to learn and grow.

You have made it very clear that you worship matter and a limited god-man who supposedly emerged out of matter over time much like the Egyptian Sun-God Ra.

That is a lie and anyone reading this thread will see that. I am not a idolator and do not worship matter. If you persist then you mark yourself as a liar.

The important thing is that using God's Holy Bible I've proved that pre-Genesis matter is a reasonable and the probable reading of Genesis 1:1-3. Note that you've never referenced any part of the Bible. You made mention of the "Church Fathers", but a reading of the quote you provided in support of your case proves nothing about ex nihilo creation, no support at all.

Fundamentally, you will never again be able to state that pre-Genesis matter is a heresy as it is now proved to you to be the proper reading of Genesis 1:1-3. You can continue on in your opinion, but it is only an opinion and an inaccurate one.

I think I see the problem we have here.

You state:
“Recognize that throughout this discussion you’ve not referenced the Bible to support your view. You’ve not refuted any of my argumenealkts.”

Yet I have stated Genesis including giving a post of various translations of 1:1 from one of your own postings.

Reality is an issue for you. Not uncommon I have seen it with more than a few Mormons on these threads. I often wonder if it is a real phenomena or just a game of acting like something is said and/or not said that in reality was or not. Same vein as playing games answering questions about Church affiliation, or claiming the Bible as a sole resource after speaking of Eastern Philosophies that “support” ones position or telling a poster their interpretation of the Early Fathers is wrong and then abandoning them as a reference point.

Look when one spends years knowing 2+2=4, being taught it, seeing it proven again and again and seeing that the vast majority of legitimate scholarship mathematically proves it as well, the guys coming along and saying 2+2=5 really are entertaining, especially when they are claiming ignorance on the part of those who know the answer is 4, and scream those folks are obviously incapable of learning and lying when they say 2+2=4.

I am sorry but I am too smart to learn something as fact that isn't no matter how many times my self appointed "teacher" screams I am ignorant and incabpapbe of learning.

That is one main reason I am not LDS. I tend to reality and real fact...

What amazes me 1010 is that I observe the same MO that Obama & Co uses on trying to undermined and destroy the Republican party comes very natural to some.

I am really proud of the good Americans who choose not to stoop to conquer not use any kind of behavior that detracts from who they are children of the Lord.

A good example the the Sequester which the Low Information Voters are clueless and because what ever Obama says makes it so yet it was Obama’s strawman and he been able to play that game over and over.

We Americans are being malign endlessly yet it is impossible to correct the distortions and character assassination of this nation for now, but the truth will in the Lord time be made known.

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