.jpg)
Posted on 02/13/2013 4:44:23 AM PST by spirited irish
The Mormonism Research Ministry is a missionary/apologetics organization organized in 1979 to propagate the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to critically evaluate the differences between Mormonism and biblical Christianity. Of the many crucial differences, the Mormon rejection of the Genesis account of supernatural creation ex nihilo in favor of a naturalistic account is just one of many pressing differences.
MRM reveals that Joseph Smith taught that matter is eternal and the Mormon God Elohim had no power to create out of nothing. Elohim merely reorganized already present elements, which have no beginning or end and cannot be destroyed:
"Since Mormons believe that the elements are eternal, it follows that they deny the ex nihilo creation." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism 1:400).
From this it follows that a mere man can become God, as the great Mormon prophet Joseph Smith explains:
"It is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and suppose that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did... Here then, is eternal life – to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priest to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one. . . . (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-47
)
The Mormon God is a creature from within creation (nature). In fact, Mormon scripture states that he is merely a physical, exalted man who lives on a planet near the great star Kolob where he and his wives busily procreate millions of spirit children who are sent into this material realm of suffering and evil to live according to the laws of the gospel and thereby earn their own godhood over their own planet:
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us." (D&C 310:22, Ed Decker, "The Lesser gods of Mormonism")
In the Genesis account the living, supernatural Triune God created all things ex-nihilo, or out of nothing. He is self-existent, eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. He is the sovereign Lord of the universe. He is the God of all creation. He is the God who stands outside of the space-time dimension, thus creation actually began before time came to be as God spoke life, soul/spirit, matter and all else out of nothing. The living, supernatural God is the First Cause of all things. (Psalm 33:6; John 1:3; Romans 4:17; Hebrews 11:3):
"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." Col. 1:16, 17
In the "Pagan Temptation," Christian scholar Thomas Molnar reports that the idea that matter is eternal is a pattern of thought stretching back to the ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, and Greeks in the West and in the East to the Upanishads:
"Matter is regarded as the opposite of God, equal to him or even greater in power, and thus absolutely evil. All of the great philosophers of Greece believed this....with the exception of Aristotle (and the materialists, of course.)" (P. 26)
In this way of thinking, everything somehow emerged out of either eternally existing matter as the ancients and Joseph Smith taught, or in contemporary terms from out of spontaneously-generated matter.
From the Babylonians forward, primordial matter has gone by many names. For example: divine One Substance, watery abyss, chaos, or void.
The Egyptian Sun-God Ra emerged (created himself) from out of Nu – the divine One Substance (primordial matter) and then as Joseph Smith recounts, became God "by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one:"
"I came into being from primordial matter...I made all the forms under which I appeared by means of (or out of) the god-soul which I raised up out of Nu (i.e., the primeval abyss of water.)" (The Long War Against God, Dr. Henry Morris, p. 243
)
In all pagan systems that speak of pre-existent matter as "spirit," Molnar writes that spirit is not personal. It is neither male nor female. It does not live, think or speak; it merely is. The human soul therefore is not created in the spiritual image of the living God Who exists outside of the time-space dimension (nature) Who Spoke and revealed Himself to man, thus it follows that humans are neither male nor female and that,
"Thought, reflection, and discursive reason entered the world through humanity..." (p. 30)
This is naturalism or materialism, which is the belief – taught by Joseph Smith – that there is neither living supernatural God nor heavenly realm outside of the space-time dimension. There is only the natural dimension.
Materialism is held in common by pantheism and spiritualism and dates back to pagan antiquity and was or is taught by all non-Biblical – but more specifically, non-Genesis account (creation ex nihilo) – thought systems.
At the heart of ancient and contemporary naturalism is monism, which refers to the view that pre-existent or spontaneously generated matter is the Ultimate Substance of which the universe and all life are made, therefore as the ancient Hermetic magic formula decrees, "as above, so below," or all is one.
In his book, "The God of Sex: How Spirituality Defines Your Sexuality," Dr. Peter Jones writes that pagan monism,
"(is) a mystical, unitive experience, a state in which distinctions disappear and opposites are joined. Androgyny, on a sexual level, reflects and confirms such an experience." (ibid, p.79)
Writing during the student revolution of the 1960s, Francis Schaeffer saw a transformation of consciousness permeating and overtaking the Western mindset, moving it away from the Christian ideal to the pagan model:
"Some forms of homosexuality today...are a philosophic expression...a denial of the antithesis. It has led in this case to an obliteration of the distinction between man and woman. So the male and the female as complimentary partners are finished." (The God of Sex: How Spirituality Defines Your Sexuality, Dr. Peter Jones, pp. 78-79)
As male and female distinctions drain into androgyny, the use of toddlers, older children and even babies for the sexual satisfaction of adults will not only be tolerated but prized, hence the pagan sage Xenophon declared:
"I must now speak of pederasty, for it affects education." (The One and the Many, Rousas John Rushdoony, p. 73)
Unresolvable Problem: Origin of Life
"Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me." John 14:
The unresolvable problem for all nature systems, and this includes Mormonism, is the ultimate origin of life and soul/spirit. This is why contemporary naturalists such as SETI researcher Paul Davies and Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the DNA molecule, have rejected abiogenesis, the idea that brute matter spontaneously generated itself from nothing, in favor of panspermia.
Panspermia is the vain idea that life on earth was accidentally seeded by meteorites containing the essential building blocks of life or perhaps by highly evolved extraterrestrials from deep space who for billions of years have been guiding the evolution of man. The extraterrestrial idea was favored by Arthur C. Clarke in his book, "Childhood's End" and a variation on this theme has recently been advanced by Davies, Crick, and Ralph Pudritz of McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario.
Crick however admits that panspermia only pushes the unresolvable problem out into deep space:
"This scenario still leaves open the question of who designed the designer [aliens] – how did life originally originate?" (Crick, Life Itself: Its Origin and Nature, 1981)
Creation Ex Nihilo, the Incarnation: Repugnant to Nature Sages
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14
The revolutionary impact of the Christian teaching about creation ex nihilo and the Incarnation was nothing less than a scandal for pagan sages just as it is for 'new' pagan evolutionary materialists (i.e., Karl Marx, Freud), evolutionary pantheists like Hegel, Blavatsky, and Luciferian Theosophists, as well as for both pre-Christian and Christian-era Gnostic's and Mormon prophet Joseph Smith.
Molnar writes that it is inconceivable to nature sages that God,
"...the spiritual being par excellence, should assume materiality – a thought as distasteful to their contemporaries as the idea of creation ex nihilo, which meant that matter too was God's creation and did not preexist creation as a separate and evil principle." (pp. 26-27)
In company with pagan sages, Mormonism rejects creation ex nihilo and the Incarnation. While faithful Christians adhere to the fact that Christ's birth was the result of a miraculous conception, that Mary was a virgin yet still conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18), according to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism,
"Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons and daughters of Elohim." (4:1676; Mormonism Research Ministry)
The LDS Church manual Gospel Principles makes clear that all men and women are children of the man-god Elohim:
"All men and women are literally sons and daughters of Deity." (2009, p. 9; ibid)
This includes the Mormon Jesus, who according to Sixth LDS President Joseph F. Smith was,
"Among the spirit children of Elohim, the first-born was and is Jehovah, or Jesus Christ, to whom all others are juniors" (Gospel Doctrine, p.70; ibid).
So both Jesus (Jehovah) and his spirit-brother Lucifer were birthed by the man-god Elohim who lives near the great star Kolob. Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball comments,
"Long before you were born a program was developed by your creators ... The principal personalities in this great drama were a Father Elohim, perfect in wisdom, judgment, and person, and two sons, Lucifer and Jehovah." (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, pp. 32-33; Mormonism Research Ministry).
Putting all of this together, the Mormon man-god Elohim emerged (created himself) out of eternally existing matter much like the ancient Egyptian's self-created Sun-God Ra. And as with all ancient nature origin accounts, the Mormon man-god cannot account for either the ultimate origin of life or man's soul/spirit:
"The essence of the human is not the body, but the soul. It is the soul alone that God made in his own image and the soul that he loves....For the sake of the soul...the Son of God came into the world...." (Incomplete Work on Matthew, Homily 25, Ancient Christian Devotional, Oden and Crosby, p. 153)
Nor can it ultimately account for the two created sexes, male and female, since all things – including the Mormon man-god Elohim – somehow emerged out of genderless spirit (pre-existing matter). Thus like their ancient counterparts, Mormonism is fated to give way before the demands of gender-neutral homosexuality.
Capitulation is already underway:
"Attorneys for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are in quiet discussions with leaders of Utah's gay and lesbian community, trying to hammer out language for a statewide ban on housing and employment discrimination that the church could support. Sen. Curt Bramble, R-Provo, opened a bill file on Thursday – the last day to request attorneys draft legislation – titled Housing and Employment Amendments and will sponsor the legislation should an agreement be reached." (Mormon Church Working on Bill to Protect Gays From Discrimination, hypervocal.com)
And while LDS attorneys hammer out tolerance policies with the gay and lesbian community, the Boy Scouts meanwhile, have put off deciding whether to reverse its long-standing policy regarding open homosexuality. The BSA's indecision is hailed by some as a strong stand, by 'gay' supporters as intolerant and bigoted. (Boy Scouts Stand Strong, Delay Potential Policy Reversal, Walker & Messner, heritage.org, 2/7/2013)
By whatever label – homosexual, gay, man-boy-lover, transgender, drag queen, bi-sexual – androgyny and nature systems go together like a hand and glove. Prior to Jesus Christ's earthly ministry pagan sages generally taught and practiced some form of gender-neutrality in keeping with their belief that pre-existent matter is the gender-free "one substance" out of which all things emerged. But when Jesus Christ – fully man-fully God – walked this earth, nature sages came face to face with the awful truth that God really exists, and further, that He really did create just two distinct sexes, male and female.
Nature philosophers and high priests had exchanged the truth about God for a lie (Romans 1:25-27). Writing in agreement, early Church Father Athanasius reveals that pride preceded man's fall into nature worship. A haughty spirit led them to disregard the higher things of God and seek in preference lower things here in the natural dimension.
The truth as to evil said Athanasius,
"...is that it originates, and resides, in the perverted choice of the darkened soul "which, materialized by forgetting God," and engrossed in lower things (i.e. matter, chemicals, DNA) "makes them into gods" and thereby "descends into a hopeless depth of delusion and superstition" whereby "they ceased to think that anything existed beyond what is seen (naturalism)....so turning away and forgetting that she was made in the image of the good God...sees no longer the Word after whose likeness she is made...." (Against the Heathen, New Advent)
Ideas have consequences. For Mormonism – as with evolutionary materialism, its secular derivatives and occult 'green' pantheist New Age spirituality – the predisposing corruption resides in foundational ideations. Thus in the rejection of the supernatural Triune God of Revelation together with the Genesis account of creation ex nihilo resides the inability to account for the origin of life, of man's soul/spirit (reason, will, conscience), immutable truth, moral absolutes, fixed meaning, and purpose (Psalm 115:4-8).
And with the rejection of the Incarnation (the historical Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity), comes the inability to logically account for and defend the two sexes. Thus the fate of Mormonism together with evolutionary materialism and occult pantheism is to not only fall into moral relativism and superstition but to eventually give way to the demands of unrestrained libido – including the use of children for the sexual gratification of adults. And these are the crimes against nature said Augustine,
"(which are the) crimes of the men of Sodom (and if) all nations in the world committed them they would all stand guilty of the same crime against the Law of God, which did not design men so that they should use each other this way." (Confessions of St. Augustine, p. 49)
Yes: churches leaders SHOULD be listened to quite intently!
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
Like the MORMONs who have no CLUE as to what their Word of Wisdom REALLY says??
| The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy. |
Good idea!
1 Timothy 6:3-5
3. If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
4. he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
5. and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
“Let’s stick to the Bible. I don’t accept the beliefs of men ...”
Spirited: Before this discussion continues, you need to come out of hiding from behind your ‘covers’ and very clearly identify your worldview propositions, for example, do you argue from an LDs belief system, or perhaps an evolutionary theist, pantheist New Age, dialectical materialist or Luciferian Theosophist position?
Every one of these stances hold to some type of thinking regarding a deity or lack thereof and the Bible, hence your lead statement, “Let’s stick to the Bible,” has meaning according to each position.
It is entertaining when folks are too cleaver by half...
Nonsense, you already know my position. The Bible is its own evidence. Does the Bible say what you think it says? No.
Now, you’re entitled to your opinion, there are millions of them on the Bible, Christianity and Salvation; but you’re not entitled to your own facts.
Using the fact of Genesis 1:1-3 your thesis for ex nihilo creation is disproved. You can continue to cling to it, that’s your choice to believe as you wish. I’ve simply pointed out the error in your supposition on the facts.
Oftimes though, faith needs to fly in the face of facts. Think of Peter’s experience on the water. While he acted in faith he remained upon the water, safe and sound. Once the facts penetrated and destroyed his faith, he submerged. Your choice, your faith, your salvation. Adieu.
The Whirling Dervishes have nothing on you....
Hint for future reference, if you are going to claim superiority at least have a linear and sound argument.
Ok, so where did the material come from then.
Please relieve me of my profound ignorance.
And for once some basis for your “superior” knowledge would be nice finally...
Actually 1010, by your own standard it is neither proved nor disproved. You yourself have said it speaks nothing of what went before, so it gives no information as to whether matter was already there or made by God. So we have a draw in that regard as far as what is said about the universe before Genesis.
Now, given that even in the very Hebrew reference you gave me the word created is used, not ordered, reorganized reshaped etc. if we are to make an argument that one side or the other was making suppositions from the text, created supports the "from nothing" far better than he just showed up found some supplies sitting around and decide to toss together the Earth.
I know a weak set of Gods is a necessity for your LDS beliefs, and I know the spiritual gymnastics's it takes to support that, but this one is just to easy.
The discussion was on creation ex nihilo. Genesis 1:1-3 is clear. There is no creation ex nihilo. End of argument. You may debate till the moon turns blood red, but it won't change that fact.
Given that your doctrine is falsifiable in the first three verses of the Holy Bible, well...
The Bible is silent on that matter. Let me be more clear: I claim no superiority to any man, just less ignorance on some matters.
What would you surmise to be the source of pre-Genesis matter?
” Does the Bible say what you think it says? No.”
Spirited: As pointed out previously, what you “personally” believe with regard to creation, God, and the Bible depends upon your worldview presuppositions, which you refuse to define.
But though your cowardice keeps you from making known your worldview, your unrelenting attacks upon creation ex nihilo reveal that you embrace the only other option: materialism.
By embracing materialism you affirm naturalism (neo-paganism) as the foundation of your belief system. As a modern pagan you have nothing either truthful or useful to say about God’s Revelation.
You cannot say Genesis is clear if you yourself state it say NOTHING what so ever about what went or was before. Indeed that leaves open all sorts of ideas that truly cannot be proven, yours or ours included. HOWEVER the word is very clear, and an all powerful single God in the universe of whom it clearly says CREATED the heavens and the earth can create from nothing or anything. Given that we know from his work he is far more powerful than the "once man god" of the LDS...
If that is of such profound ignorance to the point of being completely wrong then it is a simple matter of stating where the material came from he whipped into “ordered”...
Oh and save me the disparage bilge, I mean really...
Seems I have heard that create some where.
And I will refrain from comment on your “I make no claim of superiority” bit, again your posts speak for themselves, thankfully.
Seems I have heard that create some where.
And I will refrain from comment on your “I make no claim of superiority” bit, again your posts speak for themselves, thankfully.
Every organized religion on planet earth will do and say whatever is necessary to enhance its money, power, and prestige. Everything else they claim to represent is far down the list of priorities.
If there is money being collected by the church, it is corrupted.
If there is real estate or other valuable assets owned or controlled by the church, it is corrupted.
If there are people to be controlled and manipulated by the church, especially women and children, it is corrupted.
Thus has it always been, since the first fat, lazy, cowardly, dishonest caveman created the first official religion, so that he could stay behind with the women and children while the other men went out and took their chances at getting trampled by the mammoth.
From there, religion has gone perpetually downhill, and God is NOT favorably impressed with any of them.
It's an invention of men who want to define God. They can't and they're fools for trying. Worse, they've mislead many, but we're God-blessed to have Mr. Gutenburg and all the martyrs who died so that we could have a Bible to read for our very own self, plus an Internet to search out the truth.
Imagine an ant stumbling upon a watch. Though the ant is familiar with night and day and perhaps aware of the seasons the watch means nothing to the ant. That's man's mind to God's, yet we have the Holy Ghost and the Holy Bible and those willing to share and teach the truth.
First, I don’t set the standard, God does. His Holy Bible is clear on ex nihilo creation, there is pre-Genesis matter being worked on. That doesn’t destroy the majesty, power and wonder of His creation. It just means it wasn’t, as recored in the Bible, ex nihilo.
Reading it again will help:
Here’s Genesis 1: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm and 2: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-2.htm
Young’s Literal Translation makes it clearest:
In the beginning of God’s preparing the heavens and the earth — the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,
That’s verse 1 and 2 from Young’s Literal. It is obvious now, no?
The Biblical text states clearly that the earth in its void/formless/empty state was there to be worked on already. It’s existance doesn’t undermine the power, authority or majesty of God.
His first act is contained in Gen. 1:3. He tames chaos/disorder by immediately declaring light. There are a lot of great scientific attributes of light that make this beginning so amazing. There are also wonderful religious metaphors for light, not the least of which is joy.
So enjoy yourself, God and His Holy Word.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.