Posted on 01/01/2013 1:17:14 PM PST by Salvation
The idea that some dead or more powerful in heaven than others is Scriptural? The idea that we can pray to dad human mortals to "intercede" instead of praying to God through Jesus (gee, I remember something about praying to God in Jesus' name as the way it goes) is Scriptural?
The idea that a group of living mortal humans gets to appoint which dead humans have this power is Scriptural?
Please show me the chapter and verse.
Christianity is pretty simple. Jesus is Lord. --> Catholicism has created a top-heavy heavenly bureaucracy that the AFL-CIO would envy. Give me 8 hail mary's, fill out these forms in triplicate, sign here and here, initial here, here and here, get St. Peter to stamp this page at the next window if he isn't out fishing again, and we will have Jonah get this to Mary so she can intercede for you.
Seriously, just praying to Jesus/God is a lot less hassle.
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Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem;
Creatorem caeli et terrae.
Et in Jesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum;
qui conceptus est
de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria virgine;
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus;
descendit ad inferos;
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis;
ascendit ad caelos;
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis;
inde venturus est
iudicare vivos et mortuos.
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum;
sanctam ecclesiam catholicam;
sanctorum communionem;
remissionem peccatorum;
carnis resurrectionem;
vitam aeternam. Amen.
In English:
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary,
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
he will come again
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen
Why not? It sounds like you’ve caught it.
Personally, I’ve met many Christians who do in fact “get it” when talking about Mary though
Catholicism holds that there is an entire community of believers, not just one person. That’s why it may seem complex.
But that is because God made many people, not just one person. Take all of Hebrews 11, especially the last verses.
We are all a body of Christ, not just an individual of Christ.
As a “was raised Roman Catholic,” let me assure you that the converts from Evangelical to RC aren’t real. There’s no way that you can be saved by the grace through faith alone and then go back to relying on your works. I instead proclaim that those evangelical converts had not really understood what they thought they believed. They’re called false converts. Ray Comfort has a great sermon called Hell’s Best Kept Secret. You should listen to it. I was amazingly gratified to stop praying to Mary and repented of it deeply to my Savior, Jesus Christ. The last words we hear Mary speak, “Do whatever He(Jesus) tells you.”
Thanks for the article.
and.... ?
This allows you to pray to dead people?
Isn’t that like ancestor worship?
I guess its back to polytheism
You have to understand the psychology of demonizing the people you hate.
Calling people who don’t accept the divinity of Mary “Mariaphobic is exactly analogous to calling people who don’t believe we should redefine the parameters of marriage “homophobic”.
They are both hateful and counterproductive name calling.
Most Protestants freak out when they hear “Queen of Heaven”. I would be one of those.
It is just more protestant bashing
“But - as the article says Evangelicals insist on telling Catholics what Catholics believe, instead of listening to the Catholics when they tell them what they actually believe.”
That’s really an over-simplification. Evangelicals have a theological view, and if you accept that view, Catholic claims and apologetics don’t hold up to scrutiny. Of course, Catholics don’t accept that view, so they don’t see a problem. It’s not a matter of believing Catholics, or not believing them. It’s a matter of holding the same actions up to two different standards of judgement, and coming to two different conclusions.
To use an analogy, if I believe that Islam is a demonic deception, it’s not simply that I refuse to believe Muslims who tell me otherwise. Rather, I have come to a conclusion based on some evidence, and a particular standard that I apply to evaluate that evidence. You might argue my standard is wrong, or I’m misinterpreting the evidence, but don’t tell me that I am just refusing to believe you out of spite, or willfulness, or something like that.
“Just because I do not believe that Mary is a deity and does not have more power than Jesus or God, I am Mary-phobic?”
It’s just unseemly for Christians to be adopting homosexual language and leftist tactics in order to guilt trip other Christians into silence.
And...
You don’t get it.
None of your propositions are accurate.
It is quite possible, and I am more than ready to believe, that the RC Church discerns a theological distinction between ‘worship’ and ‘reverence’ or ‘adoration’ or whatever word is used.
I am even willing to admit for the sake of argument that said distinction actually exists.
However, what we see is that in practice it is a distinction without a difference.
Especially in 3rd world countries, I have seen for myself that for the peasant Catholic there, it is often Mary rather than Jesus, or the Father, that is prayed to.
I thought the Mariaphobics might be the criminals who are allergic to residing in Maricopa Country, AZ!
I thought the Mariaphobics might be the criminals who are allergic to residing in Maricopa County, AZ!
“The power which Christ has by His nature, Mary has by grace. Like Him she sits upon a throne, and as Queen she wields a sceptre, and out of love every knee should bow before her, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth (Phil. 2:10). The inhabitants of heaven honour Mary with a special homage; they continually sing her praises with hymns and canticles. After the service of God nothing gives them greater joy than to serve Mary. The Archangel Gabriel, who greeted her in God's name at Nazareth now remains before her in heaven, regarding it as a privilege to receive her commands and to put them into execution. The Archangel Michael, deputed by God as the guardian of the Church, and the one whose office it is to introduce the souls of the saved into heaven, even he considers himself privileged to receive an expression of Mary's wishes. Similarly, the Archangel Raphael and the seven spirits that stand before the throne of God are always ready to carry out her will in all things. All vie with one another in honouring her and in finding new ways of rendering her the homage of their service, their love, and their devotion.”
(Devotional bulletin of the Rosary Crusade in Canada
May 2002 Issue #17) www.sspx.ca/Rosary_Crusade/issue_17.htm
How is it not idolatry to deliberately misapply Phil. 2:10 to Mary? Or is this a new syndrome....call it “Scripturaignoratum”? or pick your term.
you have made the mistake of using the sspx, a schismatic group, as an example of true catholic teaching....note at the bottom of the quote...
www.sspx.ca/Rosary_Crusade/issue_17.htm
this is indeed a prime example of of folks trying to tell catholics what they truly believe or what the church truly teaches...let’s get our details correct before tossing out a baseless acusation.
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