Mariaphobic Response Syndrome: Part Two

MarkShea.com ^ | 2005 | Mark P. Shea

[Salvation]

 

Mariaphobic Response Syndrome: Part Two

In my last column, I remarked that the surprise for many Evangelical converts to the Catholic faith is how much smaller Mary is to the Catholic than she is to the Evangelical. For the Evangelical, "the Catholic Mary" looms large as a kind of ur-goddess. The fear that pre-occupies the Evangelical imagination is that, say what Catholics will, once the convert is safely inside the Church, the priest will produce the brain chip implant and you will be reprogrammed to adore and worship Mary by the Vatican's Mind Control Laser Platform in Geosynchronous Orbit above North America.

But the reality, when you finally get past the irrational terror of Mary and enter the Church is that nobody thinks she's another God, as you feared. Instead, you find that a small minority of Catholics think she's another Pope.

It's funny really. Each religious tradition has its own genius and its own pathologies. On the pathology side of Evangelicalism, particularly charismatic flavors, one sees (in a peculiar minority of Evangelicals) a frequent anointing of "prophets" who have the End Times mapped out in one way or another. Usually, this involves heavy doses of Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation, as well as ingenious interpretations of events in Israel, bar codes, and numerical evaluations of some world leader's name.

But lest Catholics clap themselves on the back too much, it must be noted that the convert is tempted to mutter "different religion, same pathologies" when he enters the Catholic communion only to be greeted by a small but earnest cadre of apocalypse-minded Catholics who center exactly the same sort of prognosticating, not around Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation-after all, we're Catholics, we don't read the Bible more than we have to-but around some alleged revelation of Mary involving chastisements, asteroid impacts, Three Days of Darkness, and weird commands issued to the Pope or the bishops of the world.

The queer thing about this particular subculture in the Church is that it appears to hold to the notion of "Church Governance by Apparition". A certain sort of Catholic can get the notion in his head that the Church is governed, not by the bishops in succession from the Apostles and in union with the Pope, but by a series of private revelations from Mary. Such Catholics are often not particularly cautious about distinguishing between public and private revelation, still less about whether a Marian apparition has been approved by the Church. Indeed, the creepier and more apocalyptic the "revelation" the more such a Catholic will be certain that its rejection by the Church is a sign of apostasy and imminent judgment on the Sinister Masonic/New Age/Jewish conspiracy at work in the hierarchy. So if an alleged Marian apparition starts claiming that the Pope must define this or that teaching as dogma, or starts telling Catholics to save up beeswax candles to prepare themselves for the Three Days of Darkness that are just around the corner, the apparition enthusiast will often regard it as a judgment on the Pope--not on the reality of the "vision"--if the Pope does not salute smartly and do whatever the latest visionary is demanding.

This is, however, to fundamentally fail to grasp what the Church has always taught with the authority of Christ. A Marian private revelation is no more binding on the Pope than it is binding on any other Catholic. The governance of the Church remains the task of the Church's Christ-appointed governors, the bishops. Mary does not supercede them in their proper and Christ-appointed role and authentic Marian apparitions never try to do so. If the Magisterium judges a Marian revelation to be authentic, the Holy Father or the bishops may well act in obedience to it (as, for instance, when Our Lady of Guadalupe requested the building of a Church and Our Lady of Fatima requested the consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart). But in such cases, the Magisterium is still left to act in freedom. It is not obliged to practice government-by-apparition and apparition enthusiasts overstep their bounds when they declare a Pope or bishop "apostate" if they fail to live up to the apparitionist's level of enthusiasm.

This basic counsel to trust the Holy Spirit in leading the Church comes hard for many people. The spectrum can be wide in such matters. Some people are the type who immediately rush off to start praying the Rosary and light candles to water stains on a highway underpass in Crawfordsville, Indiana. Others don't find even Church-approved apparitions and private revelations particularly helpful to them and therefore don't bother with them much. That's their right (the Church doesn't say you must have a devotion to, say, Our Lady of Fatima or Guadalupe, just that you may) but the sensible thing to do is to trust the Holy Spirit to guide the Church as he promised he would. Otherwise, we can find that our passions become so engaged in defending our views that, should the Church rule against us, we end up placing our view of private revelation over the Church's and condemning the Church for its "erroneous" approval or disapproval.

Copyright 2005 - Mark P. Shea

[GeronL]

The idea that the dead are just dead is not Scriptural.

The idea that some dead or more powerful in heaven than others is Scriptural? The idea that we can pray to dad human mortals to "intercede" instead of praying to God through Jesus (gee, I remember something about praying to God in Jesus' name as the way it goes) is Scriptural?

The idea that a group of living mortal humans gets to appoint which dead humans have this power is Scriptural?

Please show me the chapter and verse.

Christianity is pretty simple. Jesus is Lord. --> Catholicism has created a top-heavy heavenly bureaucracy that the AFL-CIO would envy. Give me 8 hail mary's, fill out these forms in triplicate, sign here and here, initial here, here and here, get St. Peter to stamp this page at the next window if he isn't out fishing again, and we will have Jonah get this to Mary so she can intercede for you.

Seriously, just praying to Jesus/God is a lot less hassle.

[narses]

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[narses]

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[narses]

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem;
Creatorem caeli et terrae.

Et in Jesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum;
qui conceptus est
de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria virgine;
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus;
descendit ad inferos;
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis;
ascendit ad caelos;
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis;
inde venturus est
iudicare vivos et mortuos.

Credo in Spiritum Sanctum;
sanctam ecclesiam catholicam;
sanctorum communionem;
remissionem peccatorum;
carnis resurrectionem;
vitam aeternam. Amen.

In English:

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary,
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
he will come again
to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen

[Bayard]

Why not? It sounds like you’ve caught it.

Personally, I’ve met many Christians who do in fact “get it” when talking about Mary though

[Bayard]

Catholicism holds that there is an entire community of believers, not just one person. That’s why it may seem complex.

But that is because God made many people, not just one person. Take all of Hebrews 11, especially the last verses.

We are all a body of Christ, not just an individual of Christ.

[deltaromeo11]

As a “was raised Roman Catholic,” let me assure you that the converts from Evangelical to RC aren’t real. There’s no way that you can be saved by the grace through faith alone and then go back to relying on your works. I instead proclaim that those evangelical converts had not really understood what they thought they believed. They’re called false converts. Ray Comfort has a great sermon called Hell’s Best Kept Secret. You should listen to it. I was amazingly gratified to stop praying to Mary and repented of it deeply to my Savior, Jesus Christ. The last words we hear Mary speak, “Do whatever He(Jesus) tells you.”
Thanks for the article.

[GeronL]

and.... ?

This allows you to pray to dead people?

Isn’t that like ancestor worship?

I guess its back to polytheism

[DManA]

You have to understand the psychology of demonizing the people you hate.

Calling people who don’t accept the divinity of Mary “Mariaphobic is exactly analogous to calling people who don’t believe we should redefine the parameters of marriage “homophobic”.

They are both hateful and counterproductive name calling.

[freedomfiter2]

Most Protestants freak out when they hear “Queen of Heaven”. I would be one of those.

[GeronL]

It is just more protestant bashing

[Boogieman]

“But - as the article says Evangelicals insist on telling Catholics what Catholics believe, instead of listening to the Catholics when they tell them what they actually believe.”

That’s really an over-simplification. Evangelicals have a theological view, and if you accept that view, Catholic claims and apologetics don’t hold up to scrutiny. Of course, Catholics don’t accept that view, so they don’t see a problem. It’s not a matter of believing Catholics, or not believing them. It’s a matter of holding the same actions up to two different standards of judgement, and coming to two different conclusions.

To use an analogy, if I believe that Islam is a demonic deception, it’s not simply that I refuse to believe Muslims who tell me otherwise. Rather, I have come to a conclusion based on some evidence, and a particular standard that I apply to evaluate that evidence. You might argue my standard is wrong, or I’m misinterpreting the evidence, but don’t tell me that I am just refusing to believe you out of spite, or willfulness, or something like that.

[Boogieman]

“Just because I do not believe that Mary is a deity and does not have more power than Jesus or God, I am Mary-phobic?”

It’s just unseemly for Christians to be adopting homosexual language and leftist tactics in order to guilt trip other Christians into silence.

[Bayard]

And...

You don’t get it.

None of your propositions are accurate.

[narses]

Is the the communion of saints, a foreign concept to you? Are you a member of a sect that rejects the common creeds of the Christian Faith?

[chesley]

As an Evangelical, let me just say this:

It is quite possible, and I am more than ready to believe, that the RC Church discerns a theological distinction between ‘worship’ and ‘reverence’ or ‘adoration’ or whatever word is used.

I am even willing to admit for the sake of argument that said distinction actually exists.

However, what we see is that in practice it is a distinction without a difference.

Especially in 3rd world countries, I have seen for myself that for the peasant Catholic there, it is often Mary rather than Jesus, or the Father, that is prayed to.

[Jack Hydrazine]

I thought the Mariaphobics might be the criminals who are allergic to residing in Maricopa Country, AZ!

[Jack Hydrazine]

I thought the Mariaphobics might be the criminals who are allergic to residing in Maricopa County, AZ!

[count-your-change]

“Mariaphobia”? Perhaps Mariolatry would be a more descriptive term as this partial quote of the Catholic view of Mary shows:

“The power which Christ has by His nature, Mary has by grace. Like Him she sits upon a throne, and as Queen she wields a sceptre, and out of love every knee should bow before her, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth (Phil. 2:10). The inhabitants of heaven honour Mary with a special homage; they continually sing her praises with hymns and canticles. After the service of God nothing gives them greater joy than to serve Mary. The Archangel Gabriel, who greeted her in God's name at Nazareth now remains before her in heaven, regarding it as a privilege to receive her commands and to put them into execution. The Archangel Michael, deputed by God as the guardian of the Church, and the one whose office it is to introduce the souls of the saved into heaven, even he considers himself privileged to receive an expression of Mary's wishes. Similarly, the Archangel Raphael and the seven spirits that stand before the throne of God are always ready to carry out her will in all things. All vie with one another in honouring her and in finding new ways of rendering her the homage of their service, their love, and their devotion.”
(Devotional bulletin of the Rosary Crusade in Canada
May 2002 Issue #17) www.sspx.ca/Rosary_Crusade/issue_17.htm

How is it not idolatry to deliberately misapply Phil. 2:10 to Mary? Or is this a new syndrome....call it “Scripturaignoratum”? or pick your term.

[raygunfan]

you have made the mistake of using the sspx, a schismatic group, as an example of true catholic teaching....note at the bottom of the quote...

www.sspx.ca/Rosary_Crusade/issue_17.htm

this is indeed a prime example of of folks trying to tell catholics what they truly believe or what the church truly teaches...let’s get our details correct before tossing out a baseless acusation.