Mariaphobic Response Syndrome: Part Two

MarkShea.com ^ | 2005 | Mark P. Shea

[Salvation]

 

Mariaphobic Response Syndrome: Part Two

In my last column, I remarked that the surprise for many Evangelical converts to the Catholic faith is how much smaller Mary is to the Catholic than she is to the Evangelical. For the Evangelical, "the Catholic Mary" looms large as a kind of ur-goddess. The fear that pre-occupies the Evangelical imagination is that, say what Catholics will, once the convert is safely inside the Church, the priest will produce the brain chip implant and you will be reprogrammed to adore and worship Mary by the Vatican's Mind Control Laser Platform in Geosynchronous Orbit above North America.

But the reality, when you finally get past the irrational terror of Mary and enter the Church is that nobody thinks she's another God, as you feared. Instead, you find that a small minority of Catholics think she's another Pope.

It's funny really. Each religious tradition has its own genius and its own pathologies. On the pathology side of Evangelicalism, particularly charismatic flavors, one sees (in a peculiar minority of Evangelicals) a frequent anointing of "prophets" who have the End Times mapped out in one way or another. Usually, this involves heavy doses of Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation, as well as ingenious interpretations of events in Israel, bar codes, and numerical evaluations of some world leader's name.

But lest Catholics clap themselves on the back too much, it must be noted that the convert is tempted to mutter "different religion, same pathologies" when he enters the Catholic communion only to be greeted by a small but earnest cadre of apocalypse-minded Catholics who center exactly the same sort of prognosticating, not around Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation-after all, we're Catholics, we don't read the Bible more than we have to-but around some alleged revelation of Mary involving chastisements, asteroid impacts, Three Days of Darkness, and weird commands issued to the Pope or the bishops of the world.

The queer thing about this particular subculture in the Church is that it appears to hold to the notion of "Church Governance by Apparition". A certain sort of Catholic can get the notion in his head that the Church is governed, not by the bishops in succession from the Apostles and in union with the Pope, but by a series of private revelations from Mary. Such Catholics are often not particularly cautious about distinguishing between public and private revelation, still less about whether a Marian apparition has been approved by the Church. Indeed, the creepier and more apocalyptic the "revelation" the more such a Catholic will be certain that its rejection by the Church is a sign of apostasy and imminent judgment on the Sinister Masonic/New Age/Jewish conspiracy at work in the hierarchy. So if an alleged Marian apparition starts claiming that the Pope must define this or that teaching as dogma, or starts telling Catholics to save up beeswax candles to prepare themselves for the Three Days of Darkness that are just around the corner, the apparition enthusiast will often regard it as a judgment on the Pope--not on the reality of the "vision"--if the Pope does not salute smartly and do whatever the latest visionary is demanding.

This is, however, to fundamentally fail to grasp what the Church has always taught with the authority of Christ. A Marian private revelation is no more binding on the Pope than it is binding on any other Catholic. The governance of the Church remains the task of the Church's Christ-appointed governors, the bishops. Mary does not supercede them in their proper and Christ-appointed role and authentic Marian apparitions never try to do so. If the Magisterium judges a Marian revelation to be authentic, the Holy Father or the bishops may well act in obedience to it (as, for instance, when Our Lady of Guadalupe requested the building of a Church and Our Lady of Fatima requested the consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart). But in such cases, the Magisterium is still left to act in freedom. It is not obliged to practice government-by-apparition and apparition enthusiasts overstep their bounds when they declare a Pope or bishop "apostate" if they fail to live up to the apparitionist's level of enthusiasm.

This basic counsel to trust the Holy Spirit in leading the Church comes hard for many people. The spectrum can be wide in such matters. Some people are the type who immediately rush off to start praying the Rosary and light candles to water stains on a highway underpass in Crawfordsville, Indiana. Others don't find even Church-approved apparitions and private revelations particularly helpful to them and therefore don't bother with them much. That's their right (the Church doesn't say you must have a devotion to, say, Our Lady of Fatima or Guadalupe, just that you may) but the sensible thing to do is to trust the Holy Spirit to guide the Church as he promised he would. Otherwise, we can find that our passions become so engaged in defending our views that, should the Church rule against us, we end up placing our view of private revelation over the Church's and condemning the Church for its "erroneous" approval or disapproval.

Copyright 2005 - Mark P. Shea

[elcid1970]

“Papists”

That is sooooooooooooo snake handling of you to say.

;^)

[Salvation]

I agree with you that bodies die.

But the soul does not. Depending on one’s life, the soul goes to heaven, hell or purgatory. It is very much alive.

The souls in heaven and in purgatory (In purgatory, they know they will eventually get to heaven after the harm done on earth has been atoned for.) can and DO pray for us if we ask them to.

Obviously the souls in hell cannot pray for us.

Remember the story of the rich man and the beggar, Lazaruse? The rich man asked to go back and warn his brothers about what was in store for them since he saw Lazarus the beggar in heaven. His soul was totally alive.

[BipolarBob]

That is sooooooooooooo snake handling of you to say.
heh heh My epidermis is showing.

[GeronL]

praying TO dead people is ancestor worship, not Christianity

praying to Jesus for the deceased is in keeping with Christianity though

[count-your-change]

This “schismatic group” is as “Catholic” as any other and you haven’t said how what was said here is at odds with typical Catholic teaching.

So what in that quote do you NOT agree with?

[Heart-Rest]

"The last words we hear Mary speak, 'Do whatever He(Jesus) tells you.'"

And right before that was spoken, Mary interceded with Jesus for the needs of the wedding party, after their wine ran out. Of course, Jesus honored Mary's intercession by performing a miracle. (Read John 2.)

- - - - - - -

"As a 'was raised Roman Catholic,' let me assure you that the converts from Evangelical to RC aren’t real."

If you read some of the following books documenting many conversions from Evangelical to Roman Catholic (with an honest heart and a genuinely truth-seeking mind), I am certain you will no longer believe or assert that statement you made.

     By What Authority? an Evangelical Discovers Catholic Tradition - Mark P. Shea

     No Price too High: A Pentecostal Preacher Becomes Catholic - Alex Jones

     Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism - Scott and Kimberly Hahn

     Crossing the Tiber - Stephen K. Ray

      Evangelical is Not Enough: Worship of God in Liturgy and Sacrament - Thomas Howard

     Lead, Kindly Light: My Journey to Rome - Thomas Howard

     Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic - David Currie

     A Biblical Defense of Catholicism - Dave Armstrong

     Journeys Home - Marcus Grodi

     My Life on the Rock: A Rebel Returns to the Catholic Faith - Jeff Cavins

     If Protestantism is True: The Reformation Meets Rome - Devin Rose

     Surprised by Truth: 11 Converts Give the Biblical and Historical Reasons for Becoming Catholic - Patrick Madrid

     Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on "Romanism" by "Bible Christians" - Karl Keating

[raygunfan]

since sspx isnt in communion with Christ’s one holy catholic and apostolic church, what they teach or practice isnt true roman catholic teaching.....

why dont you check what the roman catholic church actually teaches instead of a rosary screed from a non roman catholic source???

sspx ISNT AS CATHOLIC as any other....

Christ’s church built on Peter and his successors HAS NVR TAUGHT any thing like this as dogma or doctrine.

[RobbyS]

If you were steeped in the catechism you should know that there are veru different sorts of worship. In England, they speak of some officials as “your worship” —which is short for “worthy of respect.” Not all worship is idolatry. Not all reverence even for icons is idolatry. The cult of Mary can go to extremes but so can the iconoclasm of the puritans and other radicals of the Reformation, who not only smashed beautiful statutes but white-washed murals so as not to distract from the worship of the words coming from the mouths of the preachers, which were supposed to be the true Gospel. It was not unlike the approach of the desert Muslims, except that they—unlike the Puritains—love poetry.

[RobbyS]

Which does not means that the Catholic Church Church has taught him to pray to Mary rather than to Christ or to the Father. This is his PRIVATE interpretation of the Gospel.

[count-your-change]

to repeat...

So what in that quote do you NOT agree with?

It’s a simple question, one I’m sure you can answer since you said:

“Christ’s church built on Peter and his successors HAS NVR TAUGHT any thing like this as dogma or doctrine.”

So what in that quote do you NOT agree with?

[HarleyD]

Love this picture:

While a crucifix is on the wall, the family's devotion is turned to Mary.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Craftmore]

Saw more info also about “purgatory” how many mass’s does it take to pray ones relatives out of “purgatory”? The answer seems to be,how much money do you have left to pay for a special mass.The answer is always more,,and soon we hope we are successful.Alas in the Catholic church we are never assured of salvation.

[raygunfan]

and i repeat, this is not official teaching, please check the catechism for the correct teaching on Mary, from the source, the church itself.

this isnt a matter of what i agree or disagree with, this is a matter of THIS ISNT CATHOLIC TEACHING.

i disagree with you using sources of non catholics.

[MollyGoose]

“In 1998 I asked them, “Who would you rather led this nation, John Paul II or Bill Clinton?”

That’s not fair!!”

Frankly, neither one is a good choice. It is a fair question,
though. Both aspired to a political office.

[Iscool]

I don’t know why this guy had to drag non Catholics into this mess you guys created...Obviously it’s your clergy that speaks out of both sides of it’s mouth...
I think every Catholic who has ever posted on these threads (that I’ve read) is enamored with the ‘ghost of Mary’...

Maryphobia??? Is this the same bunch that came of with homophobia??? I have no fear of homos nor Mary...

[Iscool]

Here's the issue in the article: WHY do you spend so much time hyperventilating over Mary-as-goddess (something no Catholic believes)

No, here's the issue...IF you pray to it, it's worship...Regardless of what your religion conned you into believing...

[count-your-change]

Come on! It’s an easy question...either you can answer a simple question like that or you can’t. You say:

“THIS ISNT CATHOLIC TEACHING.”

O.K., what part of the quote is in conflict with Catholic teaching?
And that presumably you would disagree with?

Quite obviously the quote differs not at all from Catholic teaching and in fact, IS Catholic teaching.

[Former Fetus]

The cult of Mary can go to extremes

Perhaps one could say that I was brought up in such a "extreme" culture. The cult of Mary was ingrained at school since kindergarten: daily Rosary (more than once, if you misbehaved), novenas, daily prayer to her... And it wasn't only the school. Life in Spain would come to a stand still every day at noon, the church bells would ring and all radio stations broadcasted the angelus! And the relics!! Many years later, when I was getting ready to defend my PhD dissertation, my mom mailed me a ribbon that had touched a rock that tradition said Mary had stood upon! She wanted me to carry the ribbon with me to ensure that I would do good in my presentation! I could go on and on, but you get the idea. I don't have anything against Mary, I respect her and certainly I don't fear her. When people ask me if I believe she's the mother of God, I always answer that she is the mother of the human side of Jesus. But when I pray, I follow Paul's advice and approach boldly the Throne of Grace (Heb. 4:16) and my only mediator is Jesus (1 Tim 2:5).

[Iscool]

How is it not idolatry to deliberately misapply Phil. 2:10 to Mary? Or is this a new syndrome....call it “Scripturaignoratum”? or pick your term.

I would guess that they know most Catholics don't own a Bible to check and call them on their lie...And those that do own Bibles are convinced that they (and especially we) couldn't possibly understand the plain speech of the scriptures...

[raygunfan]

and your continued attacks against A STRAWMAN version of what the true catholic church teaches about Mary, reveals your anti catholic bias.

telling you what i agree or disagree with in the sspx statement makes no difference as it isnt the teaching of the church.

the church has nvr proclaimed anything of sspx as official roman catholic teaching, and you trying to play semantics with a schismatic non catholic organization, simply wont work.

i adhere to the catholic church and their teaching, not sspx, you can continue to play your little games, but im done.