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Is this Historical Christmas?
Simpletoremember.com ^ | Unknown | Lawrence Kelemen

Posted on 12/22/2012 6:02:55 PM PST by Phinneous

...An article on the pagan origins of Christmas...


TOPICS: Apologetics; History; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: christmas; jewish; pagan; paganism; waronchristmas
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To: Phinneous
Conceived as the light entering the temple (John 10:22 / John 8:12)

I start by reading John 1:14 under the illumination of the Ru'ach HaKodesh.

John 1:14 And the WORD became flesh,
and [fn]dwelt among us,
and we saw His glory,
glory as of the only begotten from the Father,
full of grace and truth.

[fn](1:14) Or, tabernacled; i.e. lived temporarily

σκηνόω Strong's G4637 - skēnoō
1) to fix one's tabernacle,
have one's tabernacle,
abide (or live) in a tabernacle (or tent),
tabernacle
2) to dwell
The word for Tabernacle, mishkan, is a derivative of the
same root and is used in the sense of dwelling-place in the Bible

The verse also provides illumination as to
Yah'shua being the Shekhinah glory.

Shekhinah means the dwelling or settling, and denotes the dwelling
or settling of the divine presence of God, especially in the Temple in Jerusalem.

Here is a very visual source:
Jesus' date of birth

Just based on scripture.

Again the first clue to the birth of Yah'shua is John 1:14 as cited above.

Important events in the life of Yah'shua occurred
on YHvH commanded Feast days as metaphors of the feast.

Conceived as the light entering the temple (John 10:22 / John 8:12)
Born on the Feast of Tabernacles.(John 1:14)
Circumcised on the Feast of Simchat Torah ( Joy of the WORD)
Bread and wine of the Pesach.
Death as the Lamb of G-d on Hag Matzoh.
Rising on the Feast of First Fruits.
Sending the Ru'ach HaKodesh on the Feast of Shavuot(Pentecost).

Who knows if the final trump will occur on the Feast of Trumpets

Seek YHvH in His WORD.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

61 posted on 12/23/2012 1:02:48 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: La Lydia
No matter how many times you hear Sheldon Cooper (or anyone else) say Christmas is based on a pagan holiday (whether Saturnalia, Sol Invictus, or anything else), we simply have no documented evidence of this. None. If you read the writings of the Church Fathers (those in the early Church immediately after the Apostles), you do not find those who assign Christmas to December 25th saying things like, "Let's put Jesus' birthday here so we can subvert a pagan holiday." (Not that subverting pagan holidays is a bad thing.) They simply don't do that.

The ones who say Jesus was born on December 25th do so because that is when they think he was born. Nothing personal, but I'd give more credence to the word of Christians only a generation removed from the Apostles before that of anyone here (let alone Sheldon Cooper).

62 posted on 12/23/2012 1:03:37 PM PST by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: fidelis
Nothing personal, but I'd give more credence to the word of Christians only a generation removed from the Apostles before that of anyone here (let alone Sheldon Cooper).

That begs the question of exactly who those "Christians only a generation removed from the Apostles" actually are, and what exactly is it which they are alleged to have said.

Here's the chance to settle the controversy. Can it be delivered, given the above stipulated conditions?

63 posted on 12/23/2012 1:45:45 PM PST by BlueDragon (big hitter, the Lama)
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To: fidelis

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2971709/posts?page=9#9


64 posted on 12/23/2012 2:18:28 PM PST by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: fidelis; La Lydia
No matter how many times you hear [anyone] say Christmas is based on a pagan holiday (whether Saturnalia, Sol Invictus, or anything else), we simply have no documented evidence of this. None. If you read the writings of the Church Fathers (those in the early Church immediately after the Apostles), you do not find those who assign Christmas to December 25th saying things like, "Let's put Jesus' birthday here so we can subvert a pagan holiday." (Not that subverting pagan holidays is a bad thing.) They simply don't do that.

Then one must readily rely upon the texts of those early fathers being truly the words of those early fathers, and that they are accurately transmitted by a church structure that is unabashed in it's use of inclusions and outright forgeries... and that, in the light of the fact that there are *no* extant original texts, and that all extant copies tend to come after 350AD, *after* that church has ascended to power... That same church that nearly invented the word 'propaganda'.

The closer one cares to place the genesis of that church (with it's pagan rituals and pagan superstructure) to the death of Yeshua, the more ludicrous it becomes. What is amazingly non existent in those 'early fathers' is *ANY* resemblance to what was in all certainty a sect of Judaism.

And furthermore, if one were to study the Holy Days (to include the Jubilees and Grand Jubilees) of YHWH, one would find that EVERY hallmark event of His plan occurs upon one of those Holy Days. It is absurd to believe that the incarnation of His only Begotten Son would not likewise fall upon one of those days.

That day is almost certainly the Feast of Tabernacles - One of the three Holy Days evidenced by the prophets to extend into the millenial reign of the King, and which are attended by the whole world by requirement...

and that also stands against your tradition - There is *nothing* in the prophets that resembles the Roman church in that day. *NOTHING*. How does one get to there from here?

I really don't care what folks do, other than the bare fact that these invented holidays (and there is one or many for every day of the year by now) distract people from the REAL Holy Days, which all of Christendom eschew in their entirety. Not a single day that YHWH has ordained is observed. Not one. Not even the weekly Sabbath.

If they are really 'shadows of things to come'... If they are in fact 'rehearsals' as the Hebrew meaning suggests, How will any Christian be made ready?

It is oral tradition that caused the Hebrews to be lead astray - The introduction of pagan ritual into Temple practice, and the institution of man-made laws that changed to law of YHWH and made it of no effect - In every instance, Yeshua intentionally broke the laws of the Pharisees and kept the Torah.

What is it that makes you think that the very same thing didn't happen to Christianity? In fact, the NT tends toward that inevitability... The spirit of antichrist was already working in John's day.

65 posted on 12/23/2012 2:28:58 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

Your post is a tightly packed mass of unsubstantiated allegations. Offer proof for each of these, and then we’ll talk.


66 posted on 12/23/2012 2:39:34 PM PST by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: HarleyD

Ha...Good advice...


67 posted on 12/23/2012 2:41:02 PM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Iscool

We place A little bunny in our nativity scene to remember the brave rabbit that saved easter.


68 posted on 12/23/2012 3:52:02 PM PST by Craftmore
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To: fidelis
Your post is a tightly packed mass of unsubstantiated allegations. Offer proof for each of these, and then we’ll talk.

The proof begins with the sure knowledge that Yeshua could *not* change a single thing in the Torah, OR, He is a false prophet. *nothing* added, and *nothing* taken away.

Secondly, in order to take on the sin of the world, he had to be innocent of *every* sin. In order for another to pay the debt, he must be free of the sin of the debt. Sin, by definition, is breaking the Torah. So again, there cannot have been any break with the Torah.

Lastly, as the Great Teacher, Yeshua's disciples follow His example - Any who would change what He said and lived by necessarily are not His disciples, as the purpose of a disciple is to preserve the teaching of the Rabbi. Saul broke the tradition of Gamliel to follow Yeshua as His disciple (cannot serve two masters [read: two rabbis])

Now compare. You will know them by their fruits.

Unless you can prove an authority to change what YHWH says is unchanging, there is no other proof necessary.

And speaking of 'a tightly packed mass of unsubstantiated allegations', what better to call a tradition that is proven upon the authority of the very organization that claims the tradition AS it's authority. One must wholly break with logic to accept such a premise.

69 posted on 12/23/2012 3:52:45 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Craftmore

And we always say “Mary Christmas” to make sure Mary comes first.


70 posted on 12/23/2012 4:06:00 PM PST by Craftmore
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To: editor-surveyor
You seem to have some rather unique ideas. Mostly nonsense, I'm afraid.

Merry CHRISTmas, you grouch!

71 posted on 12/23/2012 4:19:36 PM PST by Wyrd bið ful aræd (Gone Galt, 11/07/12)
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To: Craftmore

Oh, I like that. )


72 posted on 12/23/2012 4:23:22 PM PST by BipolarBob (Bitter, clinging to my Bible and AR-15.)
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To: BipolarBob

Embrace the Bunny.


73 posted on 12/23/2012 4:27:32 PM PST by Craftmore
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

Happy Chanukka to you (the only legitimate Christian observance in December, Yeshua did observe it, and that is where he healed the man born blind.)


74 posted on 12/23/2012 4:40:22 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

The teachings that Paul passed on by word of mouth were exactly the same teachings that he recorded in his epistles; nice try though.

All oral tradition is rejected by Christ.


75 posted on 12/23/2012 4:44:54 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Are you providing a link to the astronomy findings you spoke about earlier?


76 posted on 12/23/2012 5:00:01 PM PST by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

I didn’t offer a link, I asked if you would like to meet them.

For a Jew to have placed that research on a web site would place them and their families in danger.


77 posted on 12/23/2012 5:02:50 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Any time they or any Freeper would like to meet and are in or near Coral Springs, FL just lemme know...

Can you describe their Jewish-ocity? Do they walk with covered head? Have side-locks? Eat kosher? Observe the Sabbath in all it’s rigor of Jewish religious law? And being astronomers, do they have pocket protectors and short-sleeve button down shirts...with ties?


78 posted on 12/23/2012 5:18:59 PM PST by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

no,they have pointy hats long robes and crystal balls


79 posted on 12/23/2012 6:26:05 PM PST by Craftmore
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To: discostu

Can you explain any Church that has a doctrinal belief that involves an “egg laying bunny” in it?


80 posted on 12/23/2012 6:29:52 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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