Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: La Lydia
No matter how many times you hear Sheldon Cooper (or anyone else) say Christmas is based on a pagan holiday (whether Saturnalia, Sol Invictus, or anything else), we simply have no documented evidence of this. None. If you read the writings of the Church Fathers (those in the early Church immediately after the Apostles), you do not find those who assign Christmas to December 25th saying things like, "Let's put Jesus' birthday here so we can subvert a pagan holiday." (Not that subverting pagan holidays is a bad thing.) They simply don't do that.

The ones who say Jesus was born on December 25th do so because that is when they think he was born. Nothing personal, but I'd give more credence to the word of Christians only a generation removed from the Apostles before that of anyone here (let alone Sheldon Cooper).

62 posted on 12/23/2012 1:03:37 PM PST by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies ]


To: fidelis
Nothing personal, but I'd give more credence to the word of Christians only a generation removed from the Apostles before that of anyone here (let alone Sheldon Cooper).

That begs the question of exactly who those "Christians only a generation removed from the Apostles" actually are, and what exactly is it which they are alleged to have said.

Here's the chance to settle the controversy. Can it be delivered, given the above stipulated conditions?

63 posted on 12/23/2012 1:45:45 PM PST by BlueDragon (big hitter, the Lama)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies ]

To: fidelis

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2971709/posts?page=9#9


64 posted on 12/23/2012 2:18:28 PM PST by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies ]

To: fidelis; La Lydia
No matter how many times you hear [anyone] say Christmas is based on a pagan holiday (whether Saturnalia, Sol Invictus, or anything else), we simply have no documented evidence of this. None. If you read the writings of the Church Fathers (those in the early Church immediately after the Apostles), you do not find those who assign Christmas to December 25th saying things like, "Let's put Jesus' birthday here so we can subvert a pagan holiday." (Not that subverting pagan holidays is a bad thing.) They simply don't do that.

Then one must readily rely upon the texts of those early fathers being truly the words of those early fathers, and that they are accurately transmitted by a church structure that is unabashed in it's use of inclusions and outright forgeries... and that, in the light of the fact that there are *no* extant original texts, and that all extant copies tend to come after 350AD, *after* that church has ascended to power... That same church that nearly invented the word 'propaganda'.

The closer one cares to place the genesis of that church (with it's pagan rituals and pagan superstructure) to the death of Yeshua, the more ludicrous it becomes. What is amazingly non existent in those 'early fathers' is *ANY* resemblance to what was in all certainty a sect of Judaism.

And furthermore, if one were to study the Holy Days (to include the Jubilees and Grand Jubilees) of YHWH, one would find that EVERY hallmark event of His plan occurs upon one of those Holy Days. It is absurd to believe that the incarnation of His only Begotten Son would not likewise fall upon one of those days.

That day is almost certainly the Feast of Tabernacles - One of the three Holy Days evidenced by the prophets to extend into the millenial reign of the King, and which are attended by the whole world by requirement...

and that also stands against your tradition - There is *nothing* in the prophets that resembles the Roman church in that day. *NOTHING*. How does one get to there from here?

I really don't care what folks do, other than the bare fact that these invented holidays (and there is one or many for every day of the year by now) distract people from the REAL Holy Days, which all of Christendom eschew in their entirety. Not a single day that YHWH has ordained is observed. Not one. Not even the weekly Sabbath.

If they are really 'shadows of things to come'... If they are in fact 'rehearsals' as the Hebrew meaning suggests, How will any Christian be made ready?

It is oral tradition that caused the Hebrews to be lead astray - The introduction of pagan ritual into Temple practice, and the institution of man-made laws that changed to law of YHWH and made it of no effect - In every instance, Yeshua intentionally broke the laws of the Pharisees and kept the Torah.

What is it that makes you think that the very same thing didn't happen to Christianity? In fact, the NT tends toward that inevitability... The spirit of antichrist was already working in John's day.

65 posted on 12/23/2012 2:28:58 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies ]

To: fidelis

God bless on you Christmas, and for heaven’s sake lighten up. I take it you don’t watch TV. The script writers were making fun of Sheldon for being pedantic and having an opinion on things he knows nothing about, not citing him as an authority on early church history. This is a season of joy and love, not a season for humorless arguing and put-downs.


166 posted on 12/27/2012 4:53:45 AM PST by La Lydia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson