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To: fidelis; La Lydia
No matter how many times you hear [anyone] say Christmas is based on a pagan holiday (whether Saturnalia, Sol Invictus, or anything else), we simply have no documented evidence of this. None. If you read the writings of the Church Fathers (those in the early Church immediately after the Apostles), you do not find those who assign Christmas to December 25th saying things like, "Let's put Jesus' birthday here so we can subvert a pagan holiday." (Not that subverting pagan holidays is a bad thing.) They simply don't do that.

Then one must readily rely upon the texts of those early fathers being truly the words of those early fathers, and that they are accurately transmitted by a church structure that is unabashed in it's use of inclusions and outright forgeries... and that, in the light of the fact that there are *no* extant original texts, and that all extant copies tend to come after 350AD, *after* that church has ascended to power... That same church that nearly invented the word 'propaganda'.

The closer one cares to place the genesis of that church (with it's pagan rituals and pagan superstructure) to the death of Yeshua, the more ludicrous it becomes. What is amazingly non existent in those 'early fathers' is *ANY* resemblance to what was in all certainty a sect of Judaism.

And furthermore, if one were to study the Holy Days (to include the Jubilees and Grand Jubilees) of YHWH, one would find that EVERY hallmark event of His plan occurs upon one of those Holy Days. It is absurd to believe that the incarnation of His only Begotten Son would not likewise fall upon one of those days.

That day is almost certainly the Feast of Tabernacles - One of the three Holy Days evidenced by the prophets to extend into the millenial reign of the King, and which are attended by the whole world by requirement...

and that also stands against your tradition - There is *nothing* in the prophets that resembles the Roman church in that day. *NOTHING*. How does one get to there from here?

I really don't care what folks do, other than the bare fact that these invented holidays (and there is one or many for every day of the year by now) distract people from the REAL Holy Days, which all of Christendom eschew in their entirety. Not a single day that YHWH has ordained is observed. Not one. Not even the weekly Sabbath.

If they are really 'shadows of things to come'... If they are in fact 'rehearsals' as the Hebrew meaning suggests, How will any Christian be made ready?

It is oral tradition that caused the Hebrews to be lead astray - The introduction of pagan ritual into Temple practice, and the institution of man-made laws that changed to law of YHWH and made it of no effect - In every instance, Yeshua intentionally broke the laws of the Pharisees and kept the Torah.

What is it that makes you think that the very same thing didn't happen to Christianity? In fact, the NT tends toward that inevitability... The spirit of antichrist was already working in John's day.

65 posted on 12/23/2012 2:28:58 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

Your post is a tightly packed mass of unsubstantiated allegations. Offer proof for each of these, and then we’ll talk.


66 posted on 12/23/2012 2:39:34 PM PST by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: roamer_1; fidelis; HarleyD; editor-surveyor; BipolarBob; boatbums

What is it that makes you think that the very same thing didn’t happen to Christianity?

Because Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church and that He would be with us always, even to the end of the age.
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to lead the Church to all truth and make it so it is impossible to fool the elect.
I know it is probably embarassing for someone such as yourself to look at history and not be able to find anyone who agrees with these sabbath keeping doctrine and still celebrating the OT feasts for about 1,800 years.
There is a good reason the Church never kept the Sabbath and stopped celebrating these feasts, to do so would be to deny Jesus Christ.
The Sabbath pointed to Jesus and the rest we would have in Him, to keep it would deny this fact.
The Passover pointed to Jesus and His death for our sins, to still celebrate it would be to deny Jesus DIED already. He gave us His Body, the Eucharist to celebrate.
First Fruits points to Jesus and His resurrection as our First Fruits.
why still celebrate types and shadows that pointed to Jesus Christ, when He has come and fulfilled them?
Satan does not own 12/25, the Church has chosen that day to celebrate the greatest gift of all time, namely the gift from the Father of His own Son, that who so ever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
the Church has chosen 12/25, but could change it tomorrow to 3/3, 9/1, 11/21 or any other day it wishes.
so who cares whether you choose to celebrate Christ’s Mass on 12/25, The Church, here for 1,979 years, will and will continue to do so until Jesus comes again. deal with it.


90 posted on 12/23/2012 7:10:21 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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