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To: Salvation
But doesn't the Bible say in Romans 3:23 that, "…all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

At first glance this "all have sinned" may appear to contradict a Catholic's belief in Mary's Immaculate Conception. However, on further examination, it is not an impossible verse to overcome. For Catholics, Mary is seen as an exception to this passage, as are children under the age of reason, and mentally disabled people. With both of these examples, these groups are unable to sin because of their lack of reasoning. For example, a child who does not understand what sin is cannot sin, because the child is unaware of what is right and wrong. Now granted, a child who does not understand sin is not entirely like Mary, but it does show that there are exceptions to the "all have sinned" rule.

But even Catholics believe that ALL are under sin because of Adam - you call it "original sin" - and you even baptize babies before they have awareness of sin, right? So, it isn't that children and the mentally handicapped don't sin, they just do not have the awareness of sin and their need for a savior. Romans 3:23 does say "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" and Romans 3:10 says, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one". Because Mary was a human being, she falls under the same category we all do. When those who have not reached the "age of accountability" die, they are saved because of the grace of God - he does not hold their sin against them. That's the exception really. It's not that they don't sin, but that they do not have the capacity to understand sin.

Sin is "missing the mark" of God's perfection and we all are not as perfect as God and never could be without the righteousness of Christ imputed to us through faith.

17 posted on 12/07/2012 10:55:01 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

Are you still not getting it? The Immaculate Conception is about Jesus Christ — have an immaculate womb for him.


18 posted on 12/07/2012 10:58:19 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: boatbums
Jesus made her without sin -- did you miss that?

You bring up some convincing evidence, but I am still not sure about the belief.

That is ok! It is not always an easy belief to grasp! However, one should remember that it was by Jesus and for Jesus that Mary was created sinless. Without His grace, it would be impossible for such a thing to happen. Finally, it is important to say that Mary is not equal to Jesus in any way simply because she is without sin! Sometimes it comes off like that to people who do not understand the Catholic view of Mary. Jesus is without sin because He is God; Mary is without sin because Jesus made her so. Therefore, when we see the Immaculate Conception, we actually see Christ's perfection, His love, and His divine greatness!


20 posted on 12/07/2012 11:04:03 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: boatbums
So, it isn't that children and the mentally handicapped don't sin, they just do not have the awareness of sin and their need for a savior.

The stain of original sin isn't the same thing as a conscious choice to sin. A disabled person is baptized for the same reason all other Catholics are, because of the stain of original sin and for the benefit of the indwelling of the Holy Trinity imparted to us at baptism. A disabled person may or may not have the ability to consciously choose to commit sin. That's a different issue than original sin.

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one". Because Mary was a human being, she falls under the same category we all do.

Jesus had two natures, one human and one divine. As a human being, he would also be sinful based on the verse you cited. It's not like Christ or Mary were the first sinless beings. Adam and Eve were created sinless but chose to sin. Same goes with the angels. They were created sinless but some chose to rebel against God. Our belief is that just as the first Adam and Eve were created without sin, so were the New Adam and the New Eve.

Peace be with you.

30 posted on 12/07/2012 11:43:52 PM PST by PeevedPatriot
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To: boatbums

The Immaculate Conception is the work of God. God doesn’t have a timeline like we do. Mary was forgiven the original sin BEFORE she was born since God and Jesus could see IN ADVANCE that she would be the mother of Jesus. thus providing a pure womb to house the Ark of the New Covenant.

You are thinking as people think — have you ever tried to think as God thinks. He could see into the future — Christ dying on the Cross — when the origianl sin of Mary was forgiven IN ADVANCE of her conception. Thus we have the Immaculate Conception.


53 posted on 12/08/2012 3:33:36 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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