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THE IMPOSSIBLE GOSPEL OF MORMONISM: PLAN OF SALVATION
Mormon Infographics ^ | November 27, 2012

Posted on 11/27/2012 4:05:51 PM PST by greyfoxx39

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TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Eastern Religions; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Humor; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Politics; Skeptics/Seekers; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: antichristian; inman; mormon; salvation
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To: Natural Law
re: "...absence of genuine liberty..."

That is an interesting notion, but nothing is farther from the truth. For Catholics liberty is not defined as being free to do what we want, but it is being free to do what we ought. That freedom comes from discipline a formed conscience and faith.

Again, you have taken a phrase out of my comment and run with it on a path it was not intended to take. It is irritating. Please, address my actual comment and not the part you can twist to criticize "Protestants". Here's what I said:

Rev. Wylie points out that such "unity" is because of the compelling nature of the dogmas of the RCC throughout its history as well as the absence of genuine liberty when ones eternal salvation is put on the line. WRT the thread, many Mormons are brought up in the faith and, as another put it, its all they have known since childhood so they should be given a "pass" on not investigating their beliefs further.

My point, which was concerning the myth of unity in the Roman Catholic Church, is that there IS no true freedom if one has been convinced by those over him that they must depend upon them in order to go to heaven. And that really IS the gist of the same issue that Mormons must face as well. We can pretend that everyone is free to choose whatever they want to believe, but no one is saying that - least of all, me. The Scriptures are very clear what a man must do to be saved (believe on the Lord Jesus Christ). That "freedom" is hindered by GOD'S own requirements and only makes sense that HE is the one who controls the universe and makes the "rules". When others try to amend those rules with ones of their own confection - like magesteriums, they really are taking from God what belongs to Him alone and imposing additional rules on those below them. These souls, then, are NOT free to pick and choose whatever they please because they are never allowed that option. It has been drummed into them since birth that the Catholic Church alone is the only way to salvation and, until Vatican II, it was denied that there even WAS any other way. That coupled with the church infallibly declaring herself as infallible, leaves no room at all for voluntary submission.

So, this unity that is boasted of as a defining and indispensable mark of the "True Church" and that in the Church of Rome alone are these marks to be found; and therefore that she, to the exclusion of all other societies, is the holy Catholic Church, is one of coercion and not freedom. This, to me, lumps Catholicism into the same box as other religions, like Mormonism, that compel their members to submit to the confession that "I believe whatever the (whatever religion or cult) believes and teaches.". Your redefinition of freedom for Catholics being "freedom to obey" does nothing to prove there is genuine unity there - and that WAS the point.

201 posted on 11/29/2012 10:23:55 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Cronos; Colofornian
they can argue about the delicacies on tops, but no disputes on the fundamentals

So, would you call disagreement about the Popes after Pius X being legitimate (SSPX) a "delicacy on top" or would that be one of your "fundamentals"? Or, how about those who deny the findings of Vatican II like Protestants can be saved? Or, those who object to the Mass being said in the vernacular? Where is the line drawn on what is "fundamental" and what is not?

202 posted on 11/29/2012 11:01:06 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Cronos; Colofornian
(Anabaptists emphasize that salvation is by grace through faith that works (notice it's not faith plus works.). They believe that at conversion God purges a person's past sins by Christ's blood and changes that person at his very core, freeing him from the enslavement of sin and enabling him actually to live a righteous life.... This is in contrast to the Evangelical view that justification is the result only of an accounting procedure in the books of Heaven that happens totally outside the person. According to this view, when a person says the sinner's prayer, his sins are deducted from his account, and Christ's righteousness is credited to his account instead.

Is this really what you believe is different about "Anabaptists" and Evangelicals? I don't know where you got this from, but it is WAY off. Evangelicals believe that salvation is by grace through faith that results in a changed heart and works are a sign of genuine faith. They believe that at conversion God purges ALL a person's sins - past, present and future - by Christ's blood and changes that person at his very core, giving him a new, spirit nature, freeing him from the enslavement of sin and enabling him actually to live a righteous life through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit as well as him being justified, where Christ's righteousness is credited (imputed) to his account by faith. We also believe in "believer's baptism" instead of infant baptism. Now if the Anabaptists believed this, they were right because it is Biblical.

203 posted on 11/29/2012 11:26:21 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

Thanks for your well reasoned and informative posts covering factually a number of points relating to several belief systems that were a bit muddied until you weighed in.


204 posted on 11/29/2012 11:45:56 PM PST by Syncro (The Tea Party is Dead-->MSM/Dems/GOP-e -- LONG LIVE THE TEA PARTY!)
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To: boatbums

Bb — stop trolling


205 posted on 11/30/2012 1:16:11 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: boatbums

“how about those who deny..”, “who object to the..” —> bb, poor bb, you do realise the difference between those who argue this and the difference between Lutherans who believe in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and your group which doesn’t, right?


206 posted on 11/30/2012 1:19:40 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: boatbums
Really, you believe you now know everything about Anabaptists too?

Sorry but that is wayy off from what they believe

Why don't you actually read http://www.anabaptistchurch.org/ or indeed the Bible or anything before commenting on what you don't know?

207 posted on 11/30/2012 1:23:28 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: boatbums
Really, you believe you now know everything about Anabaptists too?

Sorry but that is wayy off from what they believe

Why don't you actually read http://www.anabaptistchurch.org/ ?

The Anabaptist Church says

Anabaptist interpretation of Scripture is centered on the teachings of Christ and his call to discipleship. The rest of Scripture is then viewed through this lens and interpreted so as not to contradict the teachings of Christ, the head of the church.

This produces different conclusions than when interpretation is centered on the writings of Paul as often seen in Evangelical teaching.

A Christ-centered interpretation maintains that Christ's teachings can be followed with God's enabling grace and must be followed if an entrance into the kingdom of God is to be gained.

A Paul-centered interpretation tends to overemphasize man's sinful nature and makes man utterly helpless in the pursuit of good. Consequently, many of Christ's teachings are considered unattainable in the present. In fact, some who interpret the Bible this way postpone the validity of Jesus' teachings to some future time. God's mercy and forgiveness is emphasized in this system rather than careful obedience.
So the baptist Church says that it follows a Christ-centered approach whereas ahem r, according to the anaBaptists follows a Paul centered approach

hey - if you got an objection, take it up with the Anabaptists

208 posted on 11/30/2012 1:24:35 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: boatbums
Here's more from the website

Evangelicals believe children are lost until they accept Christ. Their focus therefore is on getting the child saved. Many of their children will say the sinner's prayer by the age of 7. To me, child evangelism does not differ much from infant baptism.

you now want to argue with Baptists about what they believe?

Then go ahead and argue.

209 posted on 11/30/2012 1:27:15 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Natural Law; boatbums

NL — it’s incredible how people think they know more about say Baptists or Catholics than the followers themselves, right?


210 posted on 11/30/2012 1:28:29 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Colofornian; greyfoxx39
Quite frankly, why waste time talking about the Mormon plan of salvation?

Mormonism says that there were Semitic people in pre-Colombus America and that they had mighty cities etc. and that the native Americans are descendents

Now, the Native Americans have no Semitic genes, their languages are completely non-Semitic, their culture and history dates back a long time yet has no relationship to Semites and there is zero archaeological proof

Ergo,the entire religion is based on a provably false premise, there is no point in discussing the philosophy of this false premise

In contrast, let's take Scientology and Islam -- Scientology is based on some millenia old extra-terrestrial event. There's no way to prove or disprove that based on where we are

Islam is based on a historical set of teachings -- one can argue that Mohammed never existed, but was a compilation of people. Even then it doesn't affect Islam as the philosophies are wider

however Mormonism is based on the "fact" that there were Semites in pre-Columbus America

That is a false premise, hence everything else is not worthy of discussion as a religion -- their theory of salvation is as relevant as a cargo-cult worshipping Prince Philip of Edinburgh as God.

211 posted on 11/30/2012 1:39:48 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: boatbums; Natural Law
that compel their members to submit to the confession that "I believe whatever the (whatever religion or cult) believes and teaches."

Really, so question: so your cult will accept those who don't believe that Jesus Christ is God?

Christianity asks for that -- or are you saying that the fact that Christianity asks for this basic dogma is wrong?

212 posted on 11/30/2012 1:47:33 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: boatbums; Natural Law
that compel their members to submit to the confession that "I believe whatever the (whatever religion or cult) believes and teaches."

Really, so question: so your cult will accept those who don't believe that Jesus Christ is God?

Christianity asks for that -- or are you saying that the fact that Christianity asks for this basic dogma is wrong?

213 posted on 11/30/2012 1:50:40 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: boatbums; Natural Law
that compel their members to submit to the confession that "I believe whatever the (whatever religion or cult) believes and teaches."

Really, so question: so your cult will accept those who don't believe in the Triune nature of the Godhead?

Christianity asks for that -- or are you saying that the fact that Christianity asks for this basic dogma is asking to submit?

214 posted on 11/30/2012 1:51:21 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: boatbums; Natural Law
that compel their members to submit to the confession that "I believe whatever the (whatever religion or cult) believes and teaches."

Really, so question: Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Anglicans all say that you must believe the beliefs in the Nicene Creed -- so are you saying they are cults?

215 posted on 11/30/2012 1:53:00 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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placemark


216 posted on 11/30/2012 3:06:40 AM PST by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: Elsie

A “valid” baptism is in the Triune formula, namely if a person is baptised “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” — you a non-Catholic can do it and The Church recognizes various any Christian baptism as valid if in this triune formula — which is why we do not consider Mormon baptisms as valid.


217 posted on 11/30/2012 3:16:39 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: mitch5501; boatbums
boatbums: that compel their members to submit to the confession that "I believe whatever the (whatever religion or cult) believes and teaches."

Really, so question: Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Anglicans all say that you must believe the beliefs in the Nicene Creed -- so are you saying they are cults?

Note, mitch, that's what bb's saying in italics

218 posted on 11/30/2012 3:18:12 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Colofornian; terycarl
tery: he believes every word that he learned from childhood and is preached to him constantly.....as do

Tery --> that's not completely true. Many of those born outside have a misconception of the Church, but in religious dogma matters they are not fixed. They get different messages preached to them constantly but quite a few change their minds every now and then

Also, it's not quite right to blanket describe all non-Catholics that way.

219 posted on 11/30/2012 3:26:36 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Colofornian; terycarl; Elsie
tery: he believes every word that he learned from childhood and is preached to him constantly.....as do

Tery --> that's not completely true. Many of those born outside have a misconception of the Church, but in religious dogma matters they are not fixed. They get different messages preached to them constantly but quite a few change their minds every now and then

Also, it's not quite right to blanket describe all non-Catholics that way.

220 posted on 11/30/2012 3:26:54 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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