Posted on 10/17/2012 5:32:20 PM PDT by ReligiousLibertyTV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
[caption id="attachment_5052" align="alignright" width="215" caption=""The Water Torture. Facsimile of a Woodcut in J. Damhoudère's Praxis Rerum Criminalium: in 4to, Antwerp, 1556.""][/caption]
Pouring water over the covered face of an immobilized person is a brutal thing to do. The captive experiences severe pain and an overwhelming sensation of drowning. Some victims have even been known to break their bones as they struggle against the restraints.
But waterboarding is nothing compared with what American theologian Jonathan Edwards described God doing in his famous 1741 sermon, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. This tortuous existence extends into eternity from the moment of death.
American evangelist Charles Spurgeon preached that, In hell there is no hope. They have not even the hope of dying; the hope of being annihilated. They are forever, forever, forever lost! On every chain in hell, there is written forever. In the fires there, blaze out the words, forever. Above their heads, they read, forever. Their eyes are galled and their hearts are pained with the thought that it is forever. Oh, if I could tell you tonight that hell would one day be burned out, and that those who were lost might be saved, there would be a jubilee in hell at the very thought of it. But it cannot be it is forever they are cast into the outer darkness.
From the perspective of Edwards and Spurgeon, the depths of hell are inversely proportionate to the heights of Heaven, as an all-powerful God gives eternal life to both the saved and the damned. While tears and sorrow will vanish from Heaven, the saved live with enduring knowledge and are even expected to rejoice that somewhere else concurrently living souls of the damned ranging from evil dictators to their unsaved neighbors day after day experiencing continuous ripping pain throughout eternity. An unrepentant child who died 1,000 years ago is being tortured that much longer than a recent mass murderer.
But is this really something that God would do? Does this belief influence how many Christians relate to the rest of the world?
In a 2008 USA Today poll, 57% of Southern evangelical respondents, and 48% of the general public, said that they believed torture can be justified to obtain information from suspected terrorists.
Why would be Christians be more willing to justify torture than the general public? It might go back to the doctrine of eternal torment in hell. Many believe that God will engage in torture day and night for eternity, so it would follow that Americans fighting for a righteous cause are justified in engaging in torture for short amounts of time to meet their objectives.
In the aftermath of the terrorist attacks, on September 13, 2001, Ann Coulter, in an infamous column wrote, We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war.
In Catholic theology, torture isnt only reserved for the eternally lost. The church teaches that even the saved will suffer in purgatory for their sins until their debt of temporary punishment for venial sin has been paid through their own suffering.
But does suffering in hell appeal to the blood lust of an angry God, or do many Christians simply have the wrong picture of God? Where did this idea come from?
The doctrine of hell, as is commonly believed, has its origin in Plato and its application in the writings of Augustine who believed that God must punish, not only save, otherwise no human life, lived well or badly, made any ultimate difference. (See James V. Schall, "Regarding the Inattentiveness to Hell in Political Philosophy,"DivusThomas, (Piacenza), (#3-4, 1989), 273-79.)
Augustine believed that ultimately salvation from hell was the ultimate goal since ones destination and ones existence were the only things that were eternal. He divided society between the people who were saved in the City of God and the damned Earthly City. Since the two cities were intermingled on earth, The City of God must be fortified against the hellish Earthly City by an all-powerful totalitarian church that could police and protect the flock.
Because humanity set on a downward course through original sin, Augustine created the framework for an intermingling of church and state which would be necessary to ensure the survival of public moral virtues that would save as much of society as possible.
Invoking the doctrine of eternal hell, Augustine made an argument along the lines that if two men lived in a house which people knew with absolute certainty was about to fall down on them and kill them. If the men were warned of the impending danger and they refused, what should we do? Should we rescue them now, and reason with them later, or leave them to die? According to Augustine, we should rescue them now, for "I think that if we abstained from doing it, we should well deserve the charge of cruelty." (See Augustine, A Treatise Concerning the Correction of the Donatists; or Epistle CLXXXV).
[caption id="attachment_5041" align="alignright" width="200" caption="Religious punishment: Burning at the Stake"][/caption]
Accordingly, Augustine believed that it was the duty of the religious community to conduct investigations to locate heresy in Hell on Earth - Burning at the stakeorder to prevent the messages of heretics from corrupting the righteous. As a leading bishop, Augustine personally assisted in the interrogation, or inquisition of pagans, unorthodox Christians, and others he viewed as holding unacceptable beliefs. Ultimately, the Church took control over defining what was true doctrine and anybody who disagreed or preached contrary to these truths could be justifiably tortured or even killed in order to keep society free of harmful heresy and to fulfill the greater purpose.
So Christians acting with presumably good intentions resorted to techniques ranging from starvation to heaping burning coals on parts of the bodies of heretics. Then they started inventing ways to cause pain more efficiently while avoiding death in order to obtain confessions. Medieval torturers would tie the hands of the accused to pulleys on the ceiling and attach weights to the feet and ankles. They invented methods of stretching the joints of subjects to the point where bones were pulled from their sockets. They pulled at skin with pincers and thumbscrews and invented waterboarding, a technique first practiced by the Inquisition against Mennonite Christians in 1554.
Augustines beliefs in eternal hell, just war, and torture continue to have a tremendous influence on the modern world.
Augustine would consider this vein of thought pure heresy, but if Jesus Christ would really provide for eternal life both heaven and hell, maybe Christopher Hitchens was on to something when he titled his book, God is Not Great. If, as I type this, God is burning people at unquenchable stakes, then why would He care about the temporal suffering of a child who lost his pet dog or a father suffering the ravages of cancer? Even His suffering and death on the cross lasted less than a day how could a week, a year, a century, or eternity possibly be justified? How can a God like this possibly be love?
What a person believes about hell has a lot to do with what they think about God and how they believe people should be treated. As we enter times of social stress and ambiguity, when fundamental values are at stake, people of faith who doubt the power of God to change lives and believe that they are needed to fight the spiritual battle often engage a persecutory impulse, justified by a concept that whatever torture they mete out will be nothing to the fires of hell. In fact, for over a thousand years, Christians were religious persecutors.
Im not a theologian so this may not be complete but here is a basic overview of what the Bible says about heaven and hell.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Revelation 21:4.
Thy mercy, O Lord, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds.
Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep: O Lord, thou preservest man and beast.
How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! Therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings.
(Psalm 36:5-7)
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For more information about the doctrine of hell, visit:
Hell Truth (Amazing Facts) - http://www.helltruth.com/
Brian P. Phillips - Annhilation or Everlasting Torment? Ministry Magazine (1996) http://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1996/August/annihilation-or-endless-torment
Film: Hell and Mr. Fudge - http://hellandmrfudge.org/
‘This tortuous existence ‘
Pretty much ended his crediblility right there. Writer doesn’t know definitions of simple words, much less definition of Scripture.
Sorry, but Jesus used the word everlasting in relation to hell several times. He either said it and meant it, or he didnt say it, or he said it and did not mean it, or he lied. Take your pick.
Indeed. In the spiritual realm everlasting means just that. But then there is the annihilationists version:
The Word of God |
The annihilationists version |
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. " (Revelation 20:10) |
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were burned up and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever which means for about a moment." (Revelation 20:10) |
"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. " (Revelation 14:10-11) |
"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented for a moment with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night because they no longer exist who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. " (Revelation 14:10-11) |
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: " (Matthew 25:41) |
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire which you experience for a moment prepared for the devil and his angels: |
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:46) |
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment by just being burned up and delivered from experiencing everlasting punished but the righteous into life eternal which means experiencing it." (Matthew 25:46) |
"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" (2 Thessalonians 1:9) |
"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction by ceasing to exist from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" (2 Thessalonians 1:9) |
"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:47-48) |
"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire and be burnt up : Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched but you will cease to exist." (Mark 9:47-48) |
"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. " (Luke 16:22-23) [Note that Jesus parables do not use real names, and use real physical realities to correspond to spiritual ones] |
"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments which unlike my other stories, is science fiction because the dead spiritually know nothing and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. " (Luke 16:22-23) |
"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. " (Luke 16:24) |
"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame .which ongoing torment is not real." (Luke 16:24) |
"For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. " (Luke 16:28) |
"For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment even though they will only experience annihilation." (Luke 16:28) |
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And ReligiousLiberty.TV is another SDA front.
There is a heaven and there is a hell and there is a Purgatory.
Are you aware that the references to hell are in the Bible MORE than the references to heaven?
Look up
hell
Gehenna
Sheol
Hades
underworld
netherworld
and I am sure someone will add another word here.
Archbishop Chaput addresses the reality of Satan
Letter from Beyond
Catholic Word of the Day: GEHENNA (Hinnom, 10-17-11
To hell with Hell?
Gehenna
Hell Has to Be
The eternity of hell
Hell Is Not Empty and Pedophile Priests Will Go There" (Why Preaching on Hell is Salutary)
The Eternity of Hell
The Four Last Things: Hell
Catholic Caucus: HELL EXISTS AND WE MIGHT GO THERE!
John Calvins Worst Heresy: That Christ Suffered in Hell
Natural Calamities Divine Threats & Four Gates of Hell The four Principal Gates of Hell : I Hatred
Pope speaks with priests from his diocese about Heaven and Hell
Whatever Became of Hell? (HAS THE UNQUENCHABLE FIRE BEEN QUENCHED )
One Man's Visit to Hell
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 11: Hell
A Question Of Hell (One Minister Questions Its Existence)
Pope says hell and damnation are real and eternal
The fires of Hell are real and eternal, Pope warns
The Early Church Fathers on Hell - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
IS THE NEW MASS SOFT ON HELL?
Heaven and hell seem to be forgotten
Which circle of Hell do You belong in?
"To Hell with Hell!": The Spiritual Dumbing Down of the Generations
Reflecting on Hell: Sermon for the First Sunday in Advent
The Reality of Satan and the Victory of Jesus and Mary (an Exorcist speaks out)
Beware the Serpents Promises
Americans Describe Their Views About Life After Death(Only One 1/2 of 1% Think They Are Hell-Bound)
Sister Faustina's Vision of Hell
Hell is scrolling through pages and pages of text and undisplayed illustrations, cut and pasted from somewhere, all of which read by no one including the poster himself.
Groan! You are right.
But in the parable of Lazarus, it is said of the living “they have Moses and the Prophets” to save them from Hell.
“But in the parable of Lazarus, it is said of the living they have Moses and the Prophets to save them from Hell.”
When Jesus said that He hadn’t yet risen from the dead. It was too early to believe on Him for salvation. Moses and the Prophets looked forward to His time, when He would lay down His life for us.
All we have to do is surrender to Him, ask Him to forgive us and trust Him that He will, and He will give us His Spirit and eternal life.
He is right. He is no theologian.
It was never officially defined as a place. It IS the final purification for those already saved by the blood of the Lamb, by the grace of God. We can do nothing while in ther to improve our experience, only by repenting as much of our sins (and we have many) before we die do we “shorten” this final purification. Truly speaking, our lives are a continuous purification by God, making us Holy to be in His presence — nothing that we do purifies us
I read that as "Old Testament accounts of the invasion of Canada" :)
Well, that is the limbo of the righteous — where the Jews who died before Christ went.
Jesus blood cleanses us from ALL sin. There’s nothing left to be purified from.
Purgatory is an unscriptural constuct invented by the Catholic church. Once you die, there are no second chances. You make your decision here.
Follow Christ.
Or not.
Jesus blood cleanses us from ALL sin. There’s nothing left to be purified from.
Purgatory is an unscriptural constuct invented by the Catholic church. Once you die, there are no second chances. You make your decision here.
Follow Christ.
Or not.
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