Posted on 08/23/2012 10:05:31 AM PDT by ELS
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These kind of discussions ARE STUPID
Mary is queen because she loves us?
This is the kind of religious nonsense that wastes time when you could be out helping the poor or defeating evil (like Obama)
IF you want to believe Mary is “Queen” then enjoy yourself- no amount of discussion here will make it true (or false)
I'm not Catholic, and so am agnostic on the issue. But I know that it helps in focusing millions of minds worldwide toward God and the essential Good. Toward helping the poor or defeating evil. Thus why would one take exception?
I believe that God's principle desire is that we act decently toward one another.
How does this detract?
Did you skip the second paragraph? Right there it says,
"Mary is Queen because of her unique association to her Son, both during her earthly journey as well as in heavenly glory. The great saint of Syria, Ephrem of Syria, said regarding the queenship of Mary that it derives from her maternity: She is Mother of the Lord, of the King of kings (cf. Is 9:1-6), and she points to Jesus as our life, salvation and our hope."
Reading is fundamental.
Also, Jesus is the Son of David. In the Davidic Kingdom, the Queen Mother sits enthroned at the right hand of the King.
ref: 1 Kings 2:19
bingo !!!! if you hadnt posted this , i was going to.....
Oh ok... I guess she is ‘queen’ then
now that changes everything, and worth the hors and hours of time wasted discussing it. Yep she’s queen alright.
If she was only lady-in-waiting, or princess, that would be just awful. but now that you have explained it so clearly I can see she is ‘queen’ and now life can go on in ways i never before dreamed possible. It makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE in the world
who has Duke and Earl?
For a guy who thinks the discussion is “stupid”, you sure inconvenienced a lot of electrons over it...
The discussion matters because, as the Family of God rejoined through the sacrifice of the New Covenant (Jesus), we should learn about the Heavenly reality. I agree with you that if this were mere conjecture and fairy tale, it is an empty pursuit. If, on the other hand, these are revealed truths that are essential to our understanding God’s plan and purpose... it is far from trivial.
“Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.” - C.S. Lewis
In the economy of God, there is only truth. Learning and recognizing His Truth is not only important, it is of greatest importance.
Thanks ELS.
Great post!
12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
Ephesians 6:2
"Honor your father and mother"--which is the first commandment with a promise--
How would a God man named Jesus honor his mother? Queenship? Sounds Right to me.
If Jesus Christ is sinless like the Bible shows. We have to look at what makes Him sinless. We believe he is sinless because he never broke a commandment. Now what are the commandments. There are at least ten commandments beside six hundred thirteen mosaic laws. We know that God became man in Jesus Christ (1John4 ) according to Biblical evidence. Which this logic fits into a line of reasoning that can not be broken. He came by birth of a human female as told by the archangel Gabriel to Mary which puts her in the equation. If he is God by perfection meaning spotless lamb equals sinless man Than the greatest commandment is as good as the least commandment if he is spotless. Because if one is not held up neither is he the Sinless Savoir.
Also if he is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow which was written after his gospel ( his birth and his resurrection) accounts by the Apostles he is unchanged since this time. Divinity in birth by woman equals a mother of his humanity and divinity (1John4)together in the human race. Which is what 1John4 is the test par none of the true Christ as The Apostle John points out. Since he is sinless not to go against any commandment as Savoir and God. He can not ignore or mean to dis honor his mother in the commandment for Mother and Father of a human.
Since he is human he has to obey the commandment of Honor your Father and Mother. He can not ever and I mean ever slip in a deliberate act of dishonor to his parents. All the perfection and purity of God our Savoir falls if we believe otherwise. He being God to live for ever and ever is him being perfect in commandments observing for all eternity. We especially see he is the wounded/ slain lamb in the book of Revelation. Well for him to be wounded means he is still in the "cloth" of humanity. He is just as human as right after the resurrection and his ascension into heaven. Which means special favor on his parents. Whether we like it or not this commandment is for us to honor/ favor your mother.
If he is King his mother is special/ honor/Queen to him or he would be a liar thus not the sinless Savoir. He is not a liar.
The human mother of Jesus can not mean not of God because : Jesus in the flesh/human equals his fleshly Mother is indeed the Mother of God because of 1 John4.
So as my belief it does not bother me to call her Queen.
Exegetical hallucination.
Solomon spared Adonijah (Solomons older brother) life on the promise of "good behavior" though he did not want to recognize Solomon as the Lords choice for the throne. He then asks Bathsheba to petition the king for Adonijah to take one of David's concubines as his wife. Apparently he thought he could lay claim to the throne by backdooring his way in. Solomon instantly recognizes the plan.
So in reading the context of the passage you cited in 1 Kings 2:19 ... it is absolutely clear (Read the whole chapter) that before Bathsheba approached Solomon on behalf of Adonijah that Bethsheba was NOT, as you say, enthroned at the right hand of the King.
Lets look at the actual text shall we?
1 Kings 2:19
So Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah. And the king arose to meet her, bowed before her, and sat on his throne; then he had a throne set for the king's mother, and she sat on his right.
Solomon saw her coming, acknowledged her, then he sat down, then had a throne brought in for her, obviously one that did not exist before she approached the king. They had their conversation about Adonijah and I will let you read the next couple of verses ... because it mauls your theory. Solomon rejects his mothers request and has Adonijah killed.
After this, Bathsheba is not mentioned in scripture at all ... nothing about her ruling with Solomon, nothing about any successors doing likewise, nothing about David's mother sitting at his right hand, nothing about her or any other woman sitting at the right hand of the Father or the Lord Jesus Christ.
I hope this helps.
I am talking nothing of the sort
You are wasting time and effort (and I have seem some so-called ‘christian’ people behave very un-christian-like) arguing over things that are just plain silly.
Does God want that? Is Mary somehow different if I dont think of her as a ‘queen’ but maybe an Empress?
**I hope this helps.**
Probably not. But, you gave it the ol’ college try.
It’s really simple. What Mary was used to bring forth on this earth died on the cross. Diety doesn’t die, not even for a few hours. And God didn’t leave his soul (Mary didn’t make that part either) in hell. God put that soul back in that body (Mary didn’t do that either), and raised him up from the dead (Mary didn’t do that part either).
How is Jesus Christ God? He’s the fulness of the Godhead bodily. “God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself”.
Mary was given a great honor, but she did not make more of God. The vainities of these man-made Mary traditions are endless it seems.
Forgive me, I don’t have much time to deal with this between family and work requirements right now. I will simply ask you, is it common practice for a king to set up a throne for his guests to enjoy? Your response seems to suggest that. No king would set up a throne for anyone but whom that throne belongs. No king would bow before anyone but one worthy of such honor.
Our Lord honors His Mother in accord with the dictates of His Heart and obedience to His Father’s Will. When the mother of James and John asked that they be enthroned by Jesus, He didn’t say He would—because kings routinely set up thrones for the asking... He said that position is already ordained. Scripture gives us a hint through Kings as to the identity of the occupant.
Really. This whole argument is a fallacy in itself. What honor do we have but what the Lord grants? What condemnation do we suffer but what has been proscribed? Is it because of our words or deeds that we are elevated or laid low or is it because the Lord has chosen each in his station? Mary’s station is that of the Queen Mother because she was chosen by God to bear the Son of David. We honor her not because she was a faithful human (though she was) but because our Lord honors her as His own mother enthroned at His Right Hand.
Jesus is Lord... then, now and always—in all times. There is no time He is not Lord. There is no time when He is not part of the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity. Mary was chosen in time to enter into that reality as the mother of the Son of the Most High. We have all been chosen as children of the Most High through adoption in the New Covenant and have been restored as the Family of God. It is a great mystery and the greatest love story ever told.
These are not trivial issues the Church brings forward as stumbling blocks. These are revealed truths of the reality of Heaven.
It is all meaningless navel-pondering
Read the bible, follow the 10 commandments (the ONLY actual instructions from God that I know of) and try to be a good person and help others.
Don't worry about whether Mary sits on a thrown or a footstool at the right or left hand of the holy ‘trinity’- does it really matter?
Jesus is Lord - does it really matter? Well, yes, it does. It does because it is the Truth. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would come to the Church (at the time, the Apostles) to teach them all things. These are things we have learned and are sharing. Does it matter? Does anything matter if we reject the Spirit's teaching?
Read the bible, follow the 10 commandments (the ONLY actual instructions from God that I know of) and try to be a good person and help others.
You need to read a little deeper. Jesus echoed two more commandments from Deuteronomy (Matt 22). He also called us to fasting, prayer and almsgiving (Matt 6). He even gave us the words we are to pray when we do (Matt 6). He commanded his Apostles to baptize in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matt 28) and teach everyone to obey everything [He] commanded them.
Here you are... the Church--the successors to the Apostles and principal of the Great Commission--was commanded to teach us. Listening and learning is up to you. May God bless you.
But what does ANY OF that have to do with the “queenship” (is that even a word?) of Mary
Maybe she is an Empress, or maybe God has her as a GS-100 (the highest ever) pay grade? Don’t you see how silly a discussion of her “official title” is?
I'm trying to explain to you that the Church has been given the commission to teach as it is taught by the Holy Spirit. We have had a continuing, unfolding revelation for all of recorded time. The Old Testament spoke of Christ... but we didn't see it until it was revealed in His day. And, like the Jews of His day, people still resist the unfolding revelation today.
It is important simply because it is the Truth and Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. We come to know Christ in seeking to know what is real in the Heavenly reality. Mary is part of that Heavenly reality. She is the first to be welcomed home in body and soul and the living embodiment of the promise given us all as the Family of God. We are part of the Royal Family of Heaven (1 Cor 6:3) through the New Covenant sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.
I really don't have time to retype all that I have written on FR regarding these subjects over the years... I invite you to my homepage for some links and references and welcome the opportunity to talk more on specifics later.
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