The mythical Council of Jamnia was a kneejerk response to the upstart new Christians.
Posted on 08/12/2012 9:20:00 PM PDT by Phinneous
A Jewish class on why Jews do not accept Christianity. I post for Jews to self-educate and for Christians to understand the Jewish point of view--not that it matters (that they do.)
“So...you’ll be adding the crusades, the inquisitions, the burning of the Talmud, expulsions from every Christian country, ghettos, pogroms, blood libels, anti-Jewish decrees, such as Jews being barred from professions, businesses, guilds, trade, public office, the wearing of humiliating clothes, hats or symbols, etc., etc., etc. (all by the church) as perversions of Christianity? So, basically, for all its history, right through the Nazis, Christianity has been perverted in one way or another on a mass scale, and often coming right from the Pope.
Please don’t tell me about Christianity throughout history. With regards to the Jewish people, it has an overall awful record.”
~ ~ ~
Lumping everything you believe of Christianity into the bad, not true.
Two examples of the good, what of all those Christian buildings with Catholic names on them called hospitals and schools dotted around the world for centuries?
And in Judaism, what of Catholic Schindler? His act of Christian love to save those being tortured and killed in the camps? The Holy Father hid Jewish people in the Vatican to save them.
I challenge you, watch the Eucharistic miracle Youtube,
then reply.
THINGS TO COME, A Journal of Biblical Literature Vol. I.], JUNE, 1895., [No. 12., pp. 233-236.
The Signs of the Times.
THE JEWISH NATIONAL MOVEMENT.
THE formation of a MACCABEAN SOCIETY is a significant Sign of the Times. It is remarkable that just at this time the Maccabean exploits should be specially called to mind.
* * *
The Jewish World of April 19th, says : "A perusal of the Chovevi Zion Quarterly, and of Colonel Goldsmid's manifesto, the major part of which we publish in another column, will be enough to show that the work of the colonization of Palestine is making real progress, and the reasons why that progress is necessarily slow. Perhaps it is not a matter for regret that we cannot immediately form a semi--independent State in the Holy Land, or anywhere else. Every true Jew must be in sympathy with the aims of the Chovevi Zion, and even with their views of the way in which those aims are to be worked for. Colonel Goldsmid points out, however, that it is not the object of the society to colonize Palestine with the Jews of England, or of any one country, but with Israelites whencesoever they come. Before the realisation of such a scheme can be a blessing to humanity, or even in the true interests of Israel, there must be a closer rapprochement between the Jews of every country ; not only in national and religious feeling, but in the elevation of ideal."
* * *
The following cuttings from Jewish papers are all of them significant evidence as to what is going on around us.
"When Ezra invited the Jews of Babylon to strive for the return to Palestine, the worthy pietists replied that it was an interference with the work of Providence. It may be of advantage to 'A. S. T.' to learn that of those forty-two thousand Sabbath-breakers who came with Ezra from Babylon to Palestine sprang Simon the Just, Judas Maccabæus, Hillel and Johann Ben Zakai, and the Talmud, and all that we hold dear in Judaism ; while the descendants of those worthy pietists who remained in Babylon were lost to Judaism forever. Some cavil at the National Idea because it is not congenial to their fashionable view of patriotism, we beg of them to reflect! When European sentiment will adopt the National Idea, We shall form an Internal question everywhere.
* * *
"Nationalism is a Mosaic institution, solitary, without exception, throughout antiquity. Empire, Catholic, Cosmopolitan, Communistic, never had any idea of nationality. Judaism only preached individual nationality. With the independence of Greece, some think with the Netherland rise, this Jewish aspiration became the battle cry of modern Europe. Belgium, Roumania, Bulgaria, and others have followed with the same claim.
* * *
"A private meeting of 'Daughters of Zion' was held in Sutherland Avenue, W., and a public meeting was decided upon. Several influential ladies are expected to take a leading part in this National Movement. This makes a new epic in Zionism. The honour of taking the initiative falls upon the Misses Isaacs, and they will thus earned the gratitude of all Zionists."
* * *
"We have received a mass of congratulatory letters on our suggestion of erecting a university at Jerusalem, many promising aid as soon as an official announcement is made.
* * *
"It has become customary amongst lovers of Zion in Russia to collect at B'riths or weddings for the farm labourers in Palestine, to aid them in becoming proprietors as colonists. We are asked to state that an attempt has been made here successfully. We shall be pleased to forward any money collected.
* * *
"We are extremists. Agriculture was unknown and forgotten by us, when suddenly it was raised to a lofty pinnacle. All the Zionists gave their hearty support to the agricultural movement, and now nothing else is supported. Agriculture is certainly the basis of the National Movement, but manufacture and commerce have also their claim upon us.
* * *
"All who love Zion raise your voice for unity. We need it now ! The time for earnest work has began ! We have the deed of property on our ancestorial lands, the Anglo-Jewish colony is in course of erection. We want you all----not a soul must be missing ; re-awaken the Tents of Zion, and where there are apparently none seek for the single lover of Zion the place contains, enter into communication with us or with Dr. Hirsch, and some results will be arrived at. Tours of the leaders into the provincial towns are urgently needed ; don't allow the splendid opportunity to pass. It is a day the house of Israel were long waiting for. Tell them in the language it deserves, that Edmund the Rothschild is a chief, an official leader of the National Movement ; joy and gladness will follow the train of this advancement."
______________________
We have much more similar material from those years.
I will say this...Until the time that the Messiah comes, the only thing that will bring Love and Peace to this GODLESS earth is Jesus Christ..
Europe has gone secular, embraced Atheism and radical Islam is flourishing...
Iran wants to destroy Israel
The Middle East is erupting into all kinds of Jihads
The Liberals and the Left hate GOD and all religion..
The World is hurting from Animals perishing in the Sky and fish dying in the Oceans to the weather being turned upside down...
However what is not failing is Jesus Christ whose people’s lives are being *Transformed*
The Hopeless in the World are finding HOPE in Jesus Christ and that is all over the Internet...
Those 13 are excellent points..
However I would like to ask you this..
I believe with perfect faith that G-d rewards those who keep His commandments, and punishes those who transgress Him
So why did G-d Punish JOB?
“Evidence? There is no evidence for the word Karath being used for exile”
Sure there is.”cut off 3772”
And the uncircumcised 6189 man child 2145 whose 834 flesh 1320 of his foreskin 6190 is not circumcised 4135 , that soul 5315 shall be cut off3772 from his people 5971; he hath broken 6565 my covenant 1285.
That is physically removed from the people and spiritually removed from G-d. Exiled.
Whosoever 834 376 compoundeth 7543 [any] like it, or whosoever putteth 5414 [any] of it upon a stranger 2114 , shall even be cut3772 off from his people 5971.
Removed..exiled...excised.
This can be a spiritual, physical exile depending on the sin, can be destruction of the body straight away or early death. It can be the removal (excising of a person) from within “am Israel”
So, getting back to Isaiah,....Ezekiel speaks of Israel as “The land of the living” 26:20
So, Isaiah who like Ezekiel, is writing from Exile. Being cut-off from the land of the living, is being excised or removed from, the land of the living, would be front and center in his mind. Notice he doesnt say cut-off from the living. But LAND of the living. Rashi the Jewish sage said:...”he was cut off and exiled from the land of the living that is the land of Israel”...
“I think you should read the the scripture says, and not what you want it to say. It’s also interesting that you have not addressed this part of Daniel’s prophecy:”
What are you talking about? I just showed you definitively that being cut-off is a bad thing...Something that would NEVER be attributable to Jsus if he were messiah ben David. Messiah ben David is NEVER prophecised to be cut-off. And you are wrong. ONLY bad people are cut-off. Period. A prophet who is killed has NOT been cut-off they have been MURDERED...see the difference?
I will respond to the rest of Daniel for you or anything else. I avoid nothing...other than my job at the moment....
I will share this statement:
I for one respect the faith of Judaism and Torah very much.
My prayers for Israel and the Jewish People is that they will remain safe under G-d’s Divine Protection from those who wish her harm...
However I see the Miracle of Jesus Christ daily in the world.
I see the GOOD and the Healing it brings...
I see the Calm that Christ brings in the Storm....
This Video is so moving and telling of what FAITH can do in the EYE of the STORM or in this case a Joplin Tornado.
*SHOCKING*Joplin Tornado: Woman Calls “Jesus” Saved From Death...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o0kWosyCs8
Mark: 4-35-41
Jesus Calms the Storm
35 That day when evening came, he said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side.” 36 Leaving the crowd behind, they took him along, just as he was, in the boat. There were also other boats with him. 37 A furious squall came up, and the waves broke over the boat, so that it was nearly swamped. 38 Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?”
39 He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Quiet! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.
40 He said to his disciples, “Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?”
41 They were terrified and asked each other, “Who is this? Even the wind and the waves obey him!”
“otherwise the Angels would be greater than G-d if they could do something G-d cannot do..”
Oh...gotcha..G-d can do anything except break His own Torah (Thus making himself to a liar (G-d forbid)). G-d is who gave the angels this ability, so, G-d is greater. G-d spoke the univrse into existance, thus nothing is greater. so on and so on. Since G-d told us in 4:15 NO FORM...No Form it is! So even G-d can not go back on that and put Himself in a form, lest His word be unreliable and Him a liar (G-d forbid)
His mother was supposed to name him “Immanuel”...the Angel in the NT didnt get the message apparently.
The mythical Council of Jamnia was a kneejerk response to the upstart new Christians.
Ok..I see what you are saying....
Yes G-d would never lie, but his power is he can do anything.
So I think we can both agree that G-d can somehow transition a Angelic Entity into a Physical one...
I am not sure if anyone can say how that can be accomplished
so in the case of Jesus Christ, his body was never produced
and since I follow the Shroud of Turin, science has discovered that the the Big Bang that brought the Universe in exsistence is now being considered when examining the Shroud.
So Either it was created as a forgery by medieval sources or the image present on it was imprinted from a burst of light that miraculously occurred during Jesus Christ’s resurrection.
I think G-d has allowed in his time which is our time to discover some miraculous divine events that the Ancient World could never understand, will that validate for the whole world what happened to Jesus Christ after he was in the tomb? time will tell....
That’s an interesting question. Myself, I must admit I never thought God was punishing Job, but teaching him a lesson.
“if God’s Plan provides a Perfect Sacrifice for all human sin”
That is exactly the problem...not one verse in all of Tanakh(OT) says that there will be a perfect human sacrifice for all human sin...it doesnt exist.
Certainly a lot of perversions in there...yes!
However, Christians did much good during those times. Poland was renowned for her tolerance for centuries which is where 80% of Jews lived for a time. All Christians were not involved in the activities you cite.
right through the Nazis
Actually, even after. Many people who profess to be christians today do heinous things...we can see this with current events...abortion, enslavement under socialism, broken families, not allowing the hard-working to prosper...many people in charge of these programs DO "profess" christianity! But they are a perversion of the religion.
However, there are true christians today and always who have done tremendous good. One example, of course, being the US of A which is still the leader in safeguarding freedom in the world and was founded on Christianity (not the perversion of it) for that purpose.
I hate to say it, but even in Europe where the Church has been darker of late, it is still the place where people are flocking from other countries because they know they will get more freedom there than in other countries dominated by other religions. Thus, even there Christianity still has a positive heritage in some ways.
The hope going forward is that the true essence of Christianity is still abided by. The essential message as described in the Bible carries hope and change (but not the perverted Obama "hope and change" which is a classic case of the twisting of the Gospel message. Obama's christianity if continued would lead us into dark phases again as before in history).
God does not allow us to suffer because He is being mean to us; He allows us to suffer in order that we might admit our ultimate helplessness in this world, recognize our sins, and turn back to Him in true devotion.
But Job remained adamant in his innocence. And throughout all the suffering heaped upon his head, he did not commit sin.
God said in answer to Job’s demand for an explanation of what was happening to him. God made no attempt to defend Himself.
How do we know for sure whether our suffering is the result of our own sin or if it serves some other unfathomable purpose of God?
To anyone but a Christian, the answer to this question remains a mystery. But every Christian has the answer hanging right before him: the divine Mystery of Christ crucified.
In Christ on the cross, we comprehend perfect obedience to God’s deepest motives. On the cross, even innocent suffering glorifies God, for it leads us to persevere in love despite all the opposition the world can inflict on us.
“then what sacrifice do you have”
Sacrifices are only required when there is a temple. We have today the same exact means of atonement as Ezekiel, Daniel, Isaiah, Esther, Mordecai...Prayer, Repentance, Charity, Fasting...and a few others. When the 3rd temple is built, then sacrifices will resume. It’s just that christians have been taught since birth about the blood sacrifice being the ONLY means of atonement. It’s not. In fact many sacrfices had nothing to do with sin at all.
And even then blood was not required...Lev 5:11...Flour atones. Flour.
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