“Mitt Romney, Mormonism and the Christian Vote”: A Biblical Call to Christian Ministers and Leaders

“Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.” (1 Timothy 4:16)

Permission is hereby granted to repost under the condition that a link is provided encouraging Christians to add their names as signers.

For the sake of the Gospel, we, the undersigned, call upon Christian leaders and their respective ministries and organizations, if you plan on endorsing Governor Mitt Romney for the office of President of the United States, do so by clearly and unequivocally distancing yourself and Biblical Christianity from his Mormon beliefs.

We believe in the freedom of religion, the free exercise thereof, and the principles of a constitutional republic. Our Constitution does not require a religious “test” for any candidate to qualify for political office. Anyone should be allowed to run for office and serve if elected – regardless of their religious affiliations or lack thereof.

Further, it is not our intention with this call to bind the conscience of any individual by telling them how to vote. If an evangelical Christian chooses to vote for Mr. Romney (President Obama or any candidate), that is a decision between themselves and God.

While social and political causes are a vital and important part of the Church’s responsibilities, we believe that our primary function as Christians, both collectively and individually, is to preach and defend the Lord Jesus and His Gospel, as He is defined in the Bible, and has been affirmed in the historic Christian Church, its Councils and Creeds.

In our postmodern era, Christians are taught to believe that truth is relative and sincerity is more important than accuracy. However, we believe that the good news of the gospel – justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone – could be compromised if Mr. Romney receives unqualified public endorsements from Christian leaders, their ministries or organizations, thereby potentially confusing the evangelical Gospel with the soteriology (false gospel) of the Mormon Religion.

It is our contention that the general population should not be left with any uncertainty whether the theological cult¹ of which Mitt Romney is a faithful member, namely The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), and historic evangelical Christianity are one and the same faith. This we adamantly deny!

Though the Mormon religion sets moral standards for its members that appear to be consistent with many evangelical morals, thereby appearing to project a Christian world and life view, it would be a serious theological error to equate Christianity with Mormonism simply based upon some common values.

Since the Mormon religion was founded in the early part of the nineteenth-century, it has always been classified as a “theological cult” ¹ by virtually every Bible-believing Christian denomination in the United States and the world. The reason they were given this “cult” label is based upon their theology. The doctrines espoused by this sect are not only unbiblical, but clearly anti-Christian.

These theological differences are not at all to be compared to the dissimilarities one finds between evangelicals in Christian denominations, such as, Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Pentecostals, etc. These denominations (in their original, historic confessions and doctrinal statements) embraced a foundational theology that is Biblical, historic, and orthodox. Although these evangelicals are divided on some points of Christian theology, often secondary issues, they actually agree more than they disagree. The historic evangelical Church has always maintained that orthodoxy (correct thinking or belief) is required in order for a denomination to be considered Christian. We refer to these doctrines collectively as “the essentials of the Christian faith.” Our doctrines are derived from the Bible alone and not from man-made theology.

Since its inception in the 19th century, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has deceptively labeled itself a “Christian” church. Its leaders used the historical accounts and key figures found in the Bible, but they ignore or contradict the Bible’s central theology.

If their founders had simply started this new religion without using the historical figures and Christian terminology, then Mormonism would simply be classified as just another world religion and not a theological cult. However, since they claim that they are the only true church or the purest New Testament church while rejecting Biblical and historic Christian theology, Mormonism has accurately been classified as a “cult.”

Why Mormonism is NOT Christian

The Mormon Church teaches that there are four separate writings which constitute God’s revelation. These would include The Book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants, The Pearl of Great Price, and the Bible.²

The evangelical Christian Church teaches that the Bible alone, the sixty-six books of the Old and New Testament, is the Word of God. Quoting the Second London Baptist Confession, “The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man’s salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture, to which nothing is to be added at any time, either by new revelation of the Spirit, or by the traditions of men.”³

The Mormon Church teaches that God the Father, whom they call “Heavenly Father,” was once a flesh and blood man from a planet (near a Star) called Kolob⁴. Through his obedience to the same teaching espoused by Latter-day Saints, he was elevated to godhood sometime after his death.⁵ In fact, according to the Mormon Church, there are many such gods like “Heavenly Father” throughout the universe. According to Mormonism, God had a father and his father had a father and his father had a father ad infinitum.⁶

The evangelical Christian Church teaches that there is only one God and that He is eternal in His being and persons. The LORD affirms this in His statement in Isaiah 44:6, “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” (Also see Deuteronomy 4:35, 39; 32:39; 1 Kings 8:60; Isaiah 44:24; 45:5.)

Quoting the Westminster Confession of Faith used by Presbyterians, “There is but one only, living, and true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions; immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, most wise, most holy, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of His own immutable and most righteous will….”⁷

Mormon leaders have taught that after Heavenly Father was elevated to godhood he took an innumerable amount of celestial wives⁸ . Through the conjugal act⁹ with his first wife, he sired two spirit sons: Jesus¹⁰, the eldest, and his younger brother, Lucifer.¹¹

This teaching is repugnant to all Bible-believing evangelical Christians to say the least! While Satan’s condition differs from Christ’s, the natures of Jesus and Satan are, according to Mormon theology, equivalent.¹²

The evangelical Christian Church teaches that Jesus is eternal and unique and that Lucifer is not his “spirit” brother. Quoting the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion of the Anglican Church, “The Son, which is the Word of the Father, begotten from everlasting of the Father, the very and eternal God, and of one substance with the Father, took man’s nature in the womb of the blessed Virgin, of her substance…”¹³

Further, the Bible teaches that Jesus was the creator of not only the earth, but the entire universe and everything in it, including the devil. (Isaiah 44:24; John 1:1-3; Col. 1:5-6.)

The Mormon Church teaches that though mankind fell in the Garden of Eden his fall was in an upward trajectory¹⁴ and that the serpent told Adam and Eve the truth, i.e. you shall be like gods (Genesis 3).

The Bible and the evangelical Christian Church teaches that in the Garden of Eden man fell in a downward trajectory and this fall was from “innocence” into sin. Adam and Eve’s sin was in wanting to be like God; in which they could judge for themselves what is good and evil. In the Bible, and Christian theology the serpent told Adam and Eve a lie. The doctrinal statement for The Pentecostal Church of God article three explains, “Man is a created being, made in the likeness and the image of God, but through Adam’s transgression and fall, sin came into the world (Romans 5:12). “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). “As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3: 10).”

The Mormon Church teaches that full salvation or exaltation is acquired by men when they are elevated to godhood¹⁵, like Heavenly Father before them¹⁶, and take their celestial wives whom they impregnate and eventually populate their own planet. This is known as the “law of eternal progression” and is the highest form of salvation in Mormon theology.¹⁷ They believe that this is obtained by faith and continued by worthiness (good works), as defined by their church.¹⁸

The evangelical Christian Church teaches that salvation (justification) is from sin, by grace, through faith, in Christ alone and not of any works. The Lutheran Augsburg Confession explains, “…that men cannot be justified before God by their own strength, merits, or works, but are freely justified for Christ’s sake, through faith, when they believe that they are received into favor, and that their sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake, who, by His death, has made satisfaction for our sins. This faith God imputes for righteousness in His sight. (Romans 3 and 4.)”¹⁹

Echoing this belief, John Wesley, the great Methodist preacher explained that Biblical salvation is, “[A] salvation which is through faith. This is that great salvation foretold by the angel, before God brought his First-begotten into the world: ‘Thou shalt call his name Jesus; for he shall save his people from their sins.’ And neither here, nor in other parts of holy writ, is there any limitation or restriction. All his people, or, as it is elsewhere expressed, ‘all that believe in him,’ he will save from all their sins; from original and actual, past and present sin, ‘of the flesh and of the spirit.’ Through faith that is in him, they are saved both from the guilt and from the power of it.” (Habakkuk. 2:4; John 3:16, 18, 36; Romans 4:6, 10:9; Ephesians 2:8-9.) ²⁰

Unlike Mormonism, salvation by grace through faith in Christ returns man to a right relationship with God. It does NOT make man a god. It is contrary to the teaching of the Bible to say man can become gods, but rather, it is only Biblical to say that God the Son took upon Himself the form of man.

God the Father is married and there is a Mother God (Answers to Gospel Questions, Joseph Fielding Smith, Vol. 3, pp. 143-144).

All men and women who have ever lived on Earth are the spirit offspring of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. Every person was conceived and born in a pre-existent spiritual realm (Mormon Doctrine, p. 589).

Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence (Three Degrees of Glory, LDS Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, p. 21).

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

“As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born through this lineage…Noah’s son Ham married Egyptus (there is no Egyptus mentioned in the Bible), a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the Negro lineage through the flood.” (Bruce R. McConkie – Mormon apostle, Mormon Doctrine, p.102,477)

There are other teachings promulgated by Mormons which are equally repugnant to historic Biblical Christianity. However, the preceding examples should suffice to prove our point: Mormonism is not only “unbiblical,” regarding most of the essential truths that make up the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but, as stated previously, it is profoundly “anti-Christian.”

In conclusion, Christian leaders and laypersons who are involved in the political process should maintain discernment and avoid the temptation of doctrinal compromise simply because a candidate says he supports conservative morals and socio/political principles that align with some areas of Biblical Christianity. If endorsing or supporting any Mormon candidate, Christians should be careful not to cause confusion or blur the distinctions by equating Mormon doctrines with the beliefs of historic, traditional Christianity.

The Bible teaches that the God of the Bible is not the author of confusion. As Christians it is our duty to keep ourselves from publicly confusing the American people, and in particular evangelical Christians. (1 Corinthians 14:32-33; 40).

Actions and beliefs have consequences. If this call is not heeded, we, the undersigned, believe this will have eternal consequences on the Church, the public and the souls of those we are called to evangelize.

Permission is hereby granted to repost under the condition that a link is provided encouraging Christians to add their names as signers.

Sign the Document

End Notes:

1. By the term “cult” we DO NOT mean that individuals are involved in immoral or illegal behavior or the occult. The standard evangelical definition is best summarized by the following “A cult, then, is a group of people polarized around someone’s interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith, particularly the fact that God became man in Jesus Christ.” (Walter Martin, The Rise of the Cults, p. 12).

2. The eighth article of Faith of the Mormon Religion “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.” Notice that doubt is only cast upon the Bible.

3. Second London Baptist Confession, 1689 Chapter 1, Article 2. Though creeds and confessions are cited in this document, please note that they are nothing more than a summary of Biblical theology and are therefore subordinate to the Bible. All of the signers believe the Bible alone is the Word of God.

4. “And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it; And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.” (Book of Abraham 3:2-3)

“Kolob… signifies the first great grand governing fixed star which is the farthest that ever has been discovered by the fathers which was discovered by Methusela and also by Abraham.” (Joseph Smith – Mormon prophet, Book of Abraham translation working papers, Kirtland Egyptian Papers, Grammar p.34)

“Kolob… the planet nearest unto the habitation of the Eternal Father.” (Brigham Young – Mormon prophet, Ensign, November 1971)

“Thou longed, thou sighed and thou prayed to thy Father in heaven for the time to arrive when thou couldst come to this earth, which had fled and fallen from where it was first organised, near the planet Kolob.” (John Taylor – Mormon prophet Liahona, the Elder’s Journal, Vol. 5, No. 38, March 7, 1908)

“In this passage will be found the germ of that system of the construction and movement of planetary systems that make up the universe, set forth in the teachings of Joseph Smith. Here it may be seen that there are many great stars—the “governing ones,” near together, and from among them rises one pre-eminent in greatness—Kolob—which governs all the rest that are of the same order as that to which our solar system belongs.” (B. H. Roberts – Mormon apostle and LDS church historian A New Witness for God, p. 447)

5. Joseph Smith explained, “I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did.” (LDS History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 305).

“Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point where He now is.” (Orson Hyde – Mormon apostle, Journal of Discourses 1:123).

“But if God the Father was not always God, but came to his present exalted position by degrees of progress as indicated in the teachings of the prophet, how has there been a God from all eternity? The answer is that there has been and there now exists an endless line of Gods, stretching back into the eternities, that had no beginning and will have no end. Their existence runs parallel with endless duration, and their dominions are as limitless as boundless space.” (B. H. Roberts – Mormon apostle and LDS church historian, A New Witnesses for God 1:476).

6. “We shall go back to our Father and God, who is connected with one who is still farther back; and this Father is connected with one still further back, and so on.” (Heber C. Kimball – First Presidency Counselor, Journal of Discourses, 5:19).

“God is an exalted man… The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on.” (Joseph Fielding Smith – Mormon prophet, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:10,12).

8. “When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken – HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christian or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later… When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family…” (Brigham Young – Mormon prophet April 9, 1852 – 22nd Annual General Conference, Journal of Discourses 1:50-51)

“Our Father begat all the spirits that were before any tabernacles were made. When our Father came into the Garden he came with his celestial body and brought one of his wives with him and ate of the fruit of the garden until he could begat a tabernacle. And Adam is Michael or God and all the God that we have any thing to do with.” (Wilford Woodruff – Mormon prophet, Diary – April 9, 1852).

“President Young followed and made many good remarks… He said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ, our God was no more or less than ADAM, Michael the Archangel.” (Wilford Woodruff – Mormon prophet, Diary – February 19, 1854″

“Concerning the item of doctrine… that Adam is our Father and God…the Prophet and Apostle Brigham has declared it, and that is the word of the Lord.” (Franklin D. Richards – Mormon apostle, August 26, 1854, Millennial Star 16:534).

9. LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife: “For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother.” (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129)

“Logic and reason would certainly suggest that if we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me.” (Gordon Hinckley, “Daughters of God,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 1991, p.100.)

10. “In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ.’ ‘No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.’” (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

11. Milton R. Hunter, a member of the Mormon First Council of the Seventy (a Mormon General Authority), wrote, “The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind.” (The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

12. Apostle George Q. Cannon wrote: “We are here to be tested and tried. There is a war between Satan and God. We are brethren and sisters of Satan as well as of Jesus. It may be startling doctrine to many to say this; but Satan is our brother. Jesus is our brother. We are the children of God. God begot us in the spirit in the eternal worlds. This fight that I speak of arose, as we are told, over the question as to how man should work out his earthly probation in a tabernacle of flesh and bones and obtain redemption. Satan differed from God, and he rebelled. We are told in the scriptures that he drew after him one third of the family of God. They thought his plan better than that of the Savior Jesus Christ. From that time until the present he has been struggling to destroy the plans of Jehovah, and to seduce the children of men—his brothers and sisters—from their allegiance to God.” (Apostle George Q. Cannon, March 11th, 1894, Collected Discourses, compiled by Brian Stuy, vol. 4, p. 23,)

14. Assistant to the Twelve Apostles Sterling W. Sill spoke of Adam’s fall: “Adam fell, but he fell in the right direction. He fell toward the goal…. Adam fell, but he fell upward.” (Deseret News, Church Section, 31 July 1965, p. 7).

“Properly understood, it becomes apparent that the fall of Adam is one of the greatest blessings ever given of God to mankind.” (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 87).

15. “Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power…” “What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before.” (Joseph Smith – Mormonism founder, King Follett Sermon, Ensign, April 1971)

16. Lorenzo Snow, fifth prophet of the LDS Church exclaimed, “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be.” (Ensign, February 1982, pp. 39-40).

17. “The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fullness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.” (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 2, 48).

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man… I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea… He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth.” (Joseph Smith – Mormonism founder, Ensign, April 1971, p.13-14)

“He is our Father-the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted Being. How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds, and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through. ” (Brigham Young – Mormon prophet, Journal of Discourses 7:333)

18. According to the Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie: “There is no salvation outside the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints.“ (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Salt Lake City UT: Bookcraft 1977 p. 670)

The Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith explained: “You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace . . . until you . . . are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.” ( Teachings, pp. 346-47.); (Church Educational System, The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, Course Manual, Section 1, “The Son of the Eternal Father.”)

Brigham Young, the second president and prophet of the Mormon church declared: “I can tell you how to save yourselves… By obedience to every requirement of the Gospel…. The Lord has sent forth his laws, commandments, and ordinances to the children of men, and requires them to be strictly obeyed.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 218). “Strict obedience to the truth will enable people to dwell in the presence of the Almighty.” (8:148) (same citation)

The 12th president prophet of the Mormon church Spencer W. Kimball said: “One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation.” (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Salt Lake City Utah: Bookcraft, 1989, p.207)

Joseph Fielding Smith the 10th president prophet of the Mormon church declared: “Mankind [is] damned by [the] ‘faith alone’ doctrine” and that “we must emphatically declare that man must obey these [gospel] laws if they would be saved.” Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 2, p. 139)

“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Nephi 25:23)

“We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.” (Article of Faith #3)

“No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith… every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are.” (Brigham Young – Mormon prophet, Journal of Discourses 7:289)

“I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him… If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me.” (Orson Hyde – Mormon apostle Journal of Discourses 6:154-155)

“Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.” (Doctrine and Covenants 135:3)

Copyright 2012 FortheSakeoftheGospel.com All Rights Reserved. Permission is hereby granted to repost under the condition that a link is provided encouraging Christians to add their names as signers.

You both are dear.

Aw... shucks...

We are all on the same side here.

Do I think the extra things that the RCC requires of it's members will keep them from Heaven?

No.

Do they think that the Protestants NOT doing them will keep THEM from Heaven?

I'll venture a guess and say no.

This thread is posted in the Religion Forum. The main guideline here is "discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal." That means no ad hominems, no making the thread "about" individual Freepers, no mind reading or attributing motives.

Generally, RF posts must have some theological or philosophical context to avoid flame wars.

Click on my profile page for more guidelines to the Religion Forum.

You Dorito-lovin' heathen!

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"

"Why shouldn't I?" he said.

I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"

He said, "Like what?"

I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"

He said, "Religious."

I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"

He said, "Christian."

I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"

He said, "Protestant."

I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"

He said, "Baptist!"

I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of GOD or Baptist Church of the Lord?"

He said, "Baptist Church of GOD!"

I said, "Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of GOD, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD?"

He said,"Reformed Baptist Church of GOD!"

I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915?"

He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915!"

I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

-- Emo Phillips

How about one at a time? Long posts are tedious, I’ll reply to one on your list and you reply to one Gospel verse on my list, show how the verse confirms “Sola Fide.”

“Wow. A straight “yes” or “no” to five items is tedious?”

~ ~ ~

Go back to your comment, you didn’t specify I had to give
you a one word “yes” or “no” reply. Why would you limit
my comment?

Changing the subject, You and Elsie can’t give an yes or a no, ANY reply to those verses I posted that show “Faith Alone” is a big fat lie.

You both ran away to comment on something else, the Protestant way. Scripture is your authority but only the few verses one can twist, take out of context to line up with heresies like Martin Luther’s crazy “Faith Alone.”

Let us try again...

Explain please, there other verses too, start with these. Scripture speaks of “false works” not all “works” won’t get you to Heaven. Drat darn Luther!!

How is “Faith Alone” confirmed, proved by these verses? Don’t run away again. The Bible is inerrant, explain your
only authority?

Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 2:24
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and NOT by faith only?

Colossians 1:10
That you may walk worthy of God, in all things pleasing; being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God:

1 Corinthians 3:13
Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is.

1 Peter 1:17
And if you invoke as Father him who, without respect of persons, judgeth according to every one’s work: converse in fear during the time of your sojourning here.

“We are all on the same side here.

Do I think the extra things that the RCC requires of it’s members will keep them from Heaven?

No.

Do they think that the Protestants NOT doing them will keep THEM from Heaven?

I’ll venture a guess and say no.”

~ ~ ~

awwwhhh, thank you for the cute cartoon.

Yes, we are united in standing up for Christ, the gall
of a man running for President who rejects Christ is
God and still thinks America is going to believe the lie he is Christian!!

Make that plural...”men”, Romney and BHO.

You are very blessed, seeing the sect of Mormonism for
what it is but you gotta go further. Jesus has more for
you than His written revelation and your personal interpretation of it. Don’t read anymore anti-Catholic
crop. It’s God Himself in the Eucharist, come to believe
Our Lord wishes you to receive Him too Elsie.

First and soon, God is going to show the entire world “soon”, the faith, one Lord, one faith, one baptism is Roman Catholic. Do not make light of the plan of the anti-Christ, it’s true. The “abomination of desolation” is included with the “continual sacrifice” in Scripture. They are written together, why? When evil changes the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, it’s the anti-Christ’s attempt to abolish the Eucharist, this is prophesied since the OT and is going to happen.

You see it already, Satanist’s do not mimic, mock a
preacher’s Sunday sermon and fellowship. No, they offer
black masses and steal and desecrate Consecrated Hosts!! Jesus Mercy.

Remember, remember....okay?

Changing the subject, You and Elsie can’t give an yes or a no, ANY reply to those verses I posted that show “Faith Alone” is a big fat lie.
You both ran away to comment on something else, the Protestant way. Scripture is your authority but only the few verses one can twist, take out of context to line up with heresies like Martin Luther’s crazy “Faith Alone.”

Let us try again...

Nope, ixnay, sorry, no can do. Please don't drag your arguments with Elsie over to me. I've tried to find common ground with you on five areas that I thought you and I could agree on, and three times I've been rebuffed.

I guess that means we're done here.

[accusation that Luther was vile] Compared to WHOM?? SURELY not the Catholic hierarchy of his times!

LOL no kidding!

Know your popes: Historian Thomas W. Worcester traces dramatic changes in the papacy over 500 years
Follies of Roman Catholicism: How the Catholic Church failed to save itself from the Reformation
The Popes Of Rome
How the Renaissance Papacy contributed to the Reformation
God doesn’t create junk: Identifying a God worth serving
Top Ten Moments of the Reformation
The man who dared to laugh at the Pope [”Out of the Storm: The Life and Legacy of Martin Luther”]
THE CADAVER SYNOD: STRANGEST TRIAL IN HISTORY

164 posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 3:50:24 PM by Alex Murphy

~ ~ ~

I checked back to your earlier response, it wasn’t loving, you posted anti-Catholic links. I then and am calling you on your defense of lovable Martin Luther Brother.

Defend His “Sola Scriptura.”

I even suggested one at time of those few Gospel verses “mums” the word. You and Elise ran for the hills.

“Sola Fide” came from a man, why are you blocked on this
fact? You can change.

stpio: “Defend His “Sola Scriptura.”

~ ~ ~

CORRECTION...I meant to type “Sola Fide.” So many heresies
and so little time before the Great Warning.

Elsie and Alex...especially Elsie, don’t reject the faith and defend rotten Martin Luther and his heresies. Explain these verses. How do they prove “Sola Fide?”

Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 2:24
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and NOT by faith only?

Colossians 1:10
That you may walk worthy of God, in all things pleasing; being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God:

1 Corinthians 3:13
Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is.

1 Peter 1:17
And if you invoke as Father him who, without respect of persons, judgeth according to every one’s work: converse in fear during the time of your sojourning here.

Point out the errors of the Creed. Using the Bible. C’mon, prove your assertion because your claim is false.

The purpose of the creed is a unifying statement of faith, one written to counter various heresies and conflicts that were popping up. It is a statement of faith that is biblical.

The Nicaean creed, and the other creeds (including the apostles) agree on all the primary doctrines and all are used by the TRUE Church (Christianity). It is a false assumption that Christianity stands only on the Nicaean creed.

And I also would like a source for your claim that the creed was on its way out. Reliable source, please.

I will never vote for a Mormon, simply because as a Christian, I will not vote for a man who thinks he holds an office that ONLY belongs to Jesus Christ (High Priest in Melchizadek priesthood) and who has taken unbiblical oaths in occult rituals. Nor will I do anything to further the cult of Mormonism.

I will never vote for Mitt because, as a Christian, I cannot support his views on gay marriage or abortion.

I will never vote for Mitt because, as a CONSERVATIVE, I cannot support his views on guns and statism.

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