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“Mitt Romney, Mormonism and the Christian Vote”: A Biblical Call to Christian Ministers and Leaders
For the Sake of the Gospel.com | 2012

Posted on 08/05/2012 4:35:35 PM PDT by Colofornian

“Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.” (1 Timothy 4:16)

Copyright 2012 FortheSakeoftheGospel.com All Rights Reserved.

Permission is hereby granted to repost under the condition that a link is provided encouraging Christians to add their names as signers.

For the sake of the Gospel, we, the undersigned, call upon Christian leaders and their respective ministries and organizations, if you plan on endorsing Governor Mitt Romney for the office of President of the United States, do so by clearly and unequivocally distancing yourself and Biblical Christianity from his Mormon beliefs.

We believe in the freedom of religion, the free exercise thereof, and the principles of a constitutional republic. Our Constitution does not require a religious “test” for any candidate to qualify for political office. Anyone should be allowed to run for office and serve if elected – regardless of their religious affiliations or lack thereof.

Further, it is not our intention with this call to bind the conscience of any individual by telling them how to vote. If an evangelical Christian chooses to vote for Mr. Romney (President Obama or any candidate), that is a decision between themselves and God.

The purpose of this call to evangelical Christians and leaders is two-fold:

  1. To protect the purity and integrity of the Biblical Gospel.
  2. To seize the opportunity to educate the America Public and Christians to the fundamental differences between historic Christian faith and that of the Latter-day Saints (Mormons).

While social and political causes are a vital and important part of the Church’s responsibilities, we believe that our primary function as Christians, both collectively and individually, is to preach and defend the Lord Jesus and His Gospel, as He is defined in the Bible, and has been affirmed in the historic Christian Church, its Councils and Creeds.

In our postmodern era, Christians are taught to believe that truth is relative and sincerity is more important than accuracy. However, we believe that the good news of the gospel – justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone – could be compromised if Mr. Romney receives unqualified public endorsements from Christian leaders, their ministries or organizations, thereby potentially confusing the evangelical Gospel with the soteriology (false gospel) of the Mormon Religion.

It is our contention that the general population should not be left with any uncertainty whether the theological cult1 of which Mitt Romney is a faithful member, namely The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), and historic evangelical Christianity are one and the same faith. This we adamantly deny!

Though the Mormon religion sets moral standards for its members that appear to be consistent with many evangelical morals, thereby appearing to project a Christian world and life view, it would be a serious theological error to equate Christianity with Mormonism simply based upon some common values.

Since the Mormon religion was founded in the early part of the nineteenth-century, it has always been classified as a “theological cult” 1 by virtually every Bible-believing Christian denomination in the United States and the world. The reason they were given this “cult” label is based upon their theology. The doctrines espoused by this sect are not only unbiblical, but clearly anti-Christian.

These theological differences are not at all to be compared to the dissimilarities one finds between evangelicals in Christian denominations, such as, Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Pentecostals, etc. These denominations (in their original, historic confessions and doctrinal statements) embraced a foundational theology that is Biblical, historic, and orthodox. Although these evangelicals are divided on some points of Christian theology, often secondary issues, they actually agree more than they disagree. The historic evangelical Church has always maintained that orthodoxy (correct thinking or belief) is required in order for a denomination to be considered Christian. We refer to these doctrines collectively as “the essentials of the Christian faith.” Our doctrines are derived from the Bible alone and not from man-made theology.

Since its inception in the 19th century, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has deceptively labeled itself a “Christian” church. Its leaders used the historical accounts and key figures found in the Bible, but they ignore or contradict the Bible’s central theology.

If their founders had simply started this new religion without using the historical figures and Christian terminology, then Mormonism would simply be classified as just another world religion and not a theological cult. However, since they claim that they are the only true church or the purest New Testament church while rejecting Biblical and historic Christian theology, Mormonism has accurately been classified as a “cult.”

Why Mormonism is NOT Christian

The Doctrine of Revelation

The Mormon Church teaches that there are four separate writings which constitute God’s revelation. These would include The Book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants, The Pearl of Great Price, and the Bible.2

The evangelical Christian Church teaches that the Bible alone, the sixty-six books of the Old and New Testament, is the Word of God. Quoting the Second London Baptist Confession, “The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man’s salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture, to which nothing is to be added at any time, either by new revelation of the Spirit, or by the traditions of men.”3

The Nature of God

The Mormon Church teaches that God the Father, whom they call “Heavenly Father,” was once a flesh and blood man from a planet (near a Star) called Kolob4. Through his obedience to the same teaching espoused by Latter-day Saints, he was elevated to godhood sometime after his death.5 In fact, according to the Mormon Church, there are many such gods like “Heavenly Father” throughout the universe. According to Mormonism, God had a father and his father had a father and his father had a father ad infinitum.6

The evangelical Christian Church teaches that there is only one God and that He is eternal in His being and persons. The LORD affirms this in His statement in Isaiah 44:6, “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” (Also see Deuteronomy 4:35, 39; 32:39; 1 Kings 8:60; Isaiah 44:24; 45:5.)

Quoting the Westminster Confession of Faith used by Presbyterians, “There is but one only, living, and true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions; immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, most wise, most holy, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of His own immutable and most righteous will….”7

The Person of Jesus Christ

Mormon leaders have taught that after Heavenly Father was elevated to godhood he took an innumerable amount of celestial wives8 . Through the conjugal act9 with his first wife, he sired two spirit sons: Jesus10, the eldest, and his younger brother, Lucifer.11

This teaching is repugnant to all Bible-believing evangelical Christians to say the least! While Satan’s condition differs from Christ’s, the natures of Jesus and Satan are, according to Mormon theology, equivalent.12

The evangelical Christian Church teaches that Jesus is eternal and unique and that Lucifer is not his “spirit” brother. Quoting the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion of the Anglican Church, “The Son, which is the Word of the Father, begotten from everlasting of the Father, the very and eternal God, and of one substance with the Father, took man’s nature in the womb of the blessed Virgin, of her substance…”13

Further, the Bible teaches that Jesus was the creator of not only the earth, but the entire universe and everything in it, including the devil. (Isaiah 44:24; John 1:1-3; Col. 1:5-6.)

The Fall of Adam into Sin

The Mormon Church teaches that though mankind fell in the Garden of Eden his fall was in an upward trajectory14 and that the serpent told Adam and Eve the truth, i.e. you shall be like gods (Genesis 3).

The Bible and the evangelical Christian Church teaches that in the Garden of Eden man fell in a downward trajectory and this fall was from “innocence” into sin. Adam and Eve’s sin was in wanting to be like God; in which they could judge for themselves what is good and evil. In the Bible, and Christian theology the serpent told Adam and Eve a lie. The doctrinal statement for The Pentecostal Church of God article three explains, “Man is a created being, made in the likeness and the image of God, but through Adam’s transgression and fall, sin came into the world (Romans 5:12). “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). “As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3: 10).”

Salvation

The Mormon Church teaches that full salvation or exaltation is acquired by men when they are elevated to godhood15, like Heavenly Father before them16, and take their celestial wives whom they impregnate and eventually populate their own planet. This is known as the “law of eternal progression” and is the highest form of salvation in Mormon theology.17 They believe that this is obtained by faith and continued by worthiness (good works), as defined by their church.18

The evangelical Christian Church teaches that salvation (justification) is from sin, by grace, through faith, in Christ alone and not of any works. The Lutheran Augsburg Confession explains, “…that men cannot be justified before God by their own strength, merits, or works, but are freely justified for Christ’s sake, through faith, when they believe that they are received into favor, and that their sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake, who, by His death, has made satisfaction for our sins. This faith God imputes for righteousness in His sight. (Romans 3 and 4.)”19

Echoing this belief, John Wesley, the great Methodist preacher explained that Biblical salvation is, “[A] salvation which is through faith. This is that great salvation foretold by the angel, before God brought his First-begotten into the world: ‘Thou shalt call his name Jesus; for he shall save his people from their sins.’ And neither here, nor in other parts of holy writ, is there any limitation or restriction. All his people, or, as it is elsewhere expressed, ‘all that believe in him,’ he will save from all their sins; from original and actual, past and present sin, ‘of the flesh and of the spirit.’ Through faith that is in him, they are saved both from the guilt and from the power of it.” (Habakkuk. 2:4; John 3:16, 18, 36; Romans 4:6, 10:9; Ephesians 2:8-9.) 20

Unlike Mormonism, salvation by grace through faith in Christ returns man to a right relationship with God. It does NOT make man a god. It is contrary to the teaching of the Bible to say man can become gods, but rather, it is only Biblical to say that God the Son took upon Himself the form of man.

Other Anti-Christian Doctrines taught by Mormons

God the Father is married and there is a Mother God (Answers to Gospel Questions, Joseph Fielding Smith, Vol. 3, pp. 143-144).

All men and women who have ever lived on Earth are the spirit offspring of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. Every person was conceived and born in a pre-existent spiritual realm (Mormon Doctrine, p. 589).

Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence (Three Degrees of Glory, LDS Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, p. 21).

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

“As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born through this lineage…Noah’s son Ham married Egyptus (there is no Egyptus mentioned in the Bible), a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the Negro lineage through the flood.” (Bruce R. McConkie – Mormon apostle, Mormon Doctrine, p.102,477)

There are other teachings promulgated by Mormons which are equally repugnant to historic Biblical Christianity. However, the preceding examples should suffice to prove our point: Mormonism is not only “unbiblical,” regarding most of the essential truths that make up the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but, as stated previously, it is profoundly “anti-Christian.”

Conclusion

In conclusion, Christian leaders and laypersons who are involved in the political process should maintain discernment and avoid the temptation of doctrinal compromise simply because a candidate says he supports conservative morals and socio/political principles that align with some areas of Biblical Christianity. If endorsing or supporting any Mormon candidate, Christians should be careful not to cause confusion or blur the distinctions by equating Mormon doctrines with the beliefs of historic, traditional Christianity.

The Bible teaches that the God of the Bible is not the author of confusion. As Christians it is our duty to keep ourselves from publicly confusing the American people, and in particular evangelical Christians. (1 Corinthians 14:32-33; 40).

Actions and beliefs have consequences. If this call is not heeded, we, the undersigned, believe this will have eternal consequences on the Church, the public and the souls of those we are called to evangelize.

Copyright 2012 FortheSakeoftheGospel.com All Rights Reserved.

Permission is hereby granted to repost under the condition that a link is provided encouraging Christians to add their names as signers.

Sign the Document

End Notes:

1. By the term “cult” we DO NOT mean that individuals are involved in immoral or illegal behavior or the occult. The standard evangelical definition is best summarized by the following “A cult, then, is a group of people polarized around someone’s interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith, particularly the fact that God became man in Jesus Christ.” (Walter Martin, The Rise of the Cults, p. 12).

2. The eighth article of Faith of the Mormon Religion “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.” Notice that doubt is only cast upon the Bible.

3. Second London Baptist Confession, 1689 Chapter 1, Article 2. Though creeds and confessions are cited in this document, please note that they are nothing more than a summary of Biblical theology and are therefore subordinate to the Bible. All of the signers believe the Bible alone is the Word of God.

4. “And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it; And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.” (Book of Abraham 3:2-3)

“Kolob… signifies the first great grand governing fixed star which is the farthest that ever has been discovered by the fathers which was discovered by Methusela and also by Abraham.” (Joseph Smith – Mormon prophet, Book of Abraham translation working papers, Kirtland Egyptian Papers, Grammar p.34)

“Kolob… the planet nearest unto the habitation of the Eternal Father.” (Brigham Young – Mormon prophet, Ensign, November 1971)

“Thou longed, thou sighed and thou prayed to thy Father in heaven for the time to arrive when thou couldst come to this earth, which had fled and fallen from where it was first organised, near the planet Kolob.” (John Taylor – Mormon prophet Liahona, the Elder’s Journal, Vol. 5, No. 38, March 7, 1908)

“In this passage will be found the germ of that system of the construction and movement of planetary systems that make up the universe, set forth in the teachings of Joseph Smith. Here it may be seen that there are many great stars—the “governing ones,” near together, and from among them rises one pre-eminent in greatness—Kolob—which governs all the rest that are of the same order as that to which our solar system belongs.” (B. H. Roberts – Mormon apostle and LDS church historian A New Witness for God, p. 447)

5. Joseph Smith explained, “I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did.” (LDS History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 305).

“Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point where He now is.” (Orson Hyde – Mormon apostle, Journal of Discourses 1:123).

“But if God the Father was not always God, but came to his present exalted position by degrees of progress as indicated in the teachings of the prophet, how has there been a God from all eternity? The answer is that there has been and there now exists an endless line of Gods, stretching back into the eternities, that had no beginning and will have no end. Their existence runs parallel with endless duration, and their dominions are as limitless as boundless space.” (B. H. Roberts – Mormon apostle and LDS church historian, A New Witnesses for God 1:476).

6. “We shall go back to our Father and God, who is connected with one who is still farther back; and this Father is connected with one still further back, and so on.” (Heber C. Kimball – First Presidency Counselor, Journal of Discourses, 5:19).

God is an exalted man… The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on.” (Joseph Fielding Smith – Mormon prophet, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:10,12).

7. Westminster Confession of Faith 2:1

8. “When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken – HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christian or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later… When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family…” (Brigham Young – Mormon prophet April 9, 1852 – 22nd Annual General Conference, Journal of Discourses 1:50-51)

“Our Father begat all the spirits that were before any tabernacles were made. When our Father came into the Garden he came with his celestial body and brought one of his wives with him and ate of the fruit of the garden until he could begat a tabernacle. And Adam is Michael or God and all the God that we have any thing to do with.” (Wilford Woodruff – Mormon prophet, Diary – April 9, 1852).

“President Young followed and made many good remarks… He said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ, our God was no more or less than ADAM, Michael the Archangel.” (Wilford Woodruff – Mormon prophet, Diary – February 19, 1854″

“Concerning the item of doctrine… that Adam is our Father and God…the Prophet and Apostle Brigham has declared it, and that is the word of the Lord.” (Franklin D. Richards – Mormon apostle, August 26, 1854, Millennial Star 16:534).

9. LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife: “For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother.” (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129)

“Logic and reason would certainly suggest that if we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me.” (Gordon Hinckley, “Daughters of God,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 1991, p.100.)

10. “In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ.’ ‘No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.’” (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

11. Milton R. Hunter, a member of the Mormon First Council of the Seventy (a Mormon General Authority), wrote, “The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind.” (The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

12. Apostle George Q. Cannon wrote: “We are here to be tested and tried. There is a war between Satan and God. We are brethren and sisters of Satan as well as of Jesus. It may be startling doctrine to many to say this; but Satan is our brother. Jesus is our brother. We are the children of God. God begot us in the spirit in the eternal worlds. This fight that I speak of arose, as we are told, over the question as to how man should work out his earthly probation in a tabernacle of flesh and bones and obtain redemption. Satan differed from God, and he rebelled. We are told in the scriptures that he drew after him one third of the family of God. They thought his plan better than that of the Savior Jesus Christ. From that time until the present he has been struggling to destroy the plans of Jehovah, and to seduce the children of men—his brothers and sisters—from their allegiance to God.” (Apostle George Q. Cannon, March 11th, 1894, Collected Discourses, compiled by Brian Stuy, vol. 4, p. 23,)

13. Article II, Of the Word or Son of God, which was made very Man

14. Assistant to the Twelve Apostles Sterling W. Sill spoke of Adam’s fall: “Adam fell, but he fell in the right direction. He fell toward the goal…. Adam fell, but he fell upward.” (Deseret News, Church Section, 31 July 1965, p. 7).

“Properly understood, it becomes apparent that the fall of Adam is one of the greatest blessings ever given of God to mankind.” (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 87).

15. “Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power…” “What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before.” (Joseph Smith – Mormonism founder, King Follett Sermon, Ensign, April 1971)

16. Lorenzo Snow, fifth prophet of the LDS Church exclaimed, “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be.” (Ensign, February 1982, pp. 39-40).

17. “The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fullness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.” (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 2, 48).

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man… I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea… He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth.” (Joseph Smith – Mormonism founder, Ensign, April 1971, p.13-14)

“He is our Father-the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted Being. How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds, and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through. ” (Brigham Young – Mormon prophet, Journal of Discourses 7:333)

18. According to the Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie: “There is no salvation outside the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints.“ (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Salt Lake City UT: Bookcraft 1977 p. 670)

The Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith explained: “You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace . . . until you . . . are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.” ( Teachings, pp. 346-47.); (Church Educational System, The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, Course Manual, Section 1, “The Son of the Eternal Father.”)

Brigham Young, the second president and prophet of the Mormon church declared: “I can tell you how to save yourselves… By obedience to every requirement of the Gospel…. The Lord has sent forth his laws, commandments, and ordinances to the children of men, and requires them to be strictly obeyed.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 218). “Strict obedience to the truth will enable people to dwell in the presence of the Almighty.” (8:148) (same citation)

The 12th president prophet of the Mormon church Spencer W. Kimball said: “One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation.” (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Salt Lake City Utah: Bookcraft, 1989, p.207)

Joseph Fielding Smith the 10th president prophet of the Mormon church declared: “Mankind [is] damned by [the] ‘faith alone’ doctrine” and that “we must emphatically declare that man must obey these [gospel] laws if they would be saved.” Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 2, p. 139)

“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Nephi 25:23)

“We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.” (Article of Faith #3)

“No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith… every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are.” (Brigham Young – Mormon prophet, Journal of Discourses 7:289)

“I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him… If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me.” (Orson Hyde – Mormon apostle Journal of Discourses 6:154-155)

“Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.” (Doctrine and Covenants 135:3)

19. Article IV, Of Justification

20. Salvation by Faith by John Wesley (Sermon on 18th June 1738).

Copyright 2012 FortheSakeoftheGospel.com All Rights Reserved. Permission is hereby granted to repost under the condition that a link is provided encouraging Christians to add their names as signers.


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KEYWORDS: 2012issues; christianvote; gospel; inman; lds; mittromney; mormonism; ntsa; romney2012; vanity
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If you follow the Church, her teaching, it doesn’t, Old Testament and the Gospel.





NIV Matthew 2:5
"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:

NIV Matthew 4:1-11
1. Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
2. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
3. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4. Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
5. Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
7. Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10. Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
11. Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

NIV Matthew 11:10
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Matthew 21:13
"It is written," he said to them, "`My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a `den of robbers.' "

NIV Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him.

NIV Matthew 26:31
Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'

NIV Mark 7:6-7
6. He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
7. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

NIV Mark 9:11-13
11. And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
12. Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
13. But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."

NIV Mark 11:17
And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written: "`My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations' ? But you have made it `a den of robbers.' "

NIV Mark 14:27
"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'

NIV Luke 1:1-4
1. Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4. so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

NIV Luke 4:17-19
17. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18. "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
19. to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

NIV Luke 7:27
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

NIV Luke 18:31-33
31. Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
32. He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
33. On the third day he will rise again."

NIV Luke 20:17-18
17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: "`The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone ' ?
18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

NIV Luke 21:22
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

NIV Luke 22:37
It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

NIV Luke 24:44-47
44. He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47. and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

NIV John 2:17
His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."
 
NIV John 6:31
Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' "

NIV John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

NIV John 12:14-16
14. Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
15. "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."
16. At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.

NIV John 15:25
But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: `They hated me without reason.'

NIV John 20:30-31
30. Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

NIV Acts 1:20
"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, "`May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "`May another take his place of leadership.'

NIV Acts 7:42
But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: "`Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?

NIV Acts 13:29
When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.

NIV Acts 13:32-33
32. "We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers
33. he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: "`You are my Son; today I have become your Father. '

NIV Acts 15:15-18
15. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16. "`After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
17. that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'
18. that have been known for ages.

NIV Acts 23:5
Paul replied, "Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: `Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.' "

NIV Acts 24:14
However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,
and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

NIV Romans 1:17
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

NIV Romans 2:24
As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

NIV Romans 3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."

NIV Romans 3:10-12
10. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
11. there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

NIV Romans 4:17
As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

NIV Romans 4:23-24
23. The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
24. but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

NIV Romans 8:36
As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

NIV Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

NIV Romans 10:15
And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

NIV Romans 11:7-10
7. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8. as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."
9. And David says: "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."

NIV Romans 11:26-27
26. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

NIV Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

NIV Romans 14:11
It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"

NIV Romans 15:3-4
3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

NIV Romans 15:7-12
7. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
8. For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs
9. so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name."
10. Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."
11. And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and sing praises to him, all you peoples."
12. And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him."

NIV Romans 15:21
Rather, as it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:19
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:31
Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9
However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --

NIV 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ;
20. and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."

NIV 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

NIV 1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned?

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:7
Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:11
These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.

NIV 2 Corinthians 4:13-14
13. it is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,
14. because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.

NIV 2 Corinthians 8:15
as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."

NIV Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

NIV Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

NIV Galatians 4:22
For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.

NIV Galatians 4:27
For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."

NIV Hebrews 10:7
Then I said, `Here I am-- it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"

NIV 1 Peter 1:15-16
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

NIV 2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

NIV 1 John 2:12-14
12. I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
14. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

161 posted on 08/07/2012 8:57:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian

bookmarking


162 posted on 08/07/2012 11:26:28 AM PDT by T Minus Four
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To: stpio; Elsie; All
Look at Scripture in context. No verse in Scripture should conflict with another. If you follow the Church, her teaching, it doesn’t, Old Testament and the Gospel. Martin Luther’s FAITH ALONE is a lie, it came from his head not from God. The man was vile.

ALL: Minus the Holy Spirit convicting St. Pio's heart, he is wandering.

Read the BIBLE verses Elsie posted in response...and please read these verses below... What you'll see "matched up" is THE Bible vs. St. Pio...and that's no match at all!!!

The Bible on faith, grace, and works-righteousness

...the gospel, by the power of God who has saved us and called us to a holy life—NOT because of anything WE have done BUT because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time... (2 Tim. 1:8-9)

The reality?
#1 We're saved by the character of graciousness exhibited by God as exercised in His Son, Jesus Christ; not the character of man.
#2 And to pre-empt complete boasting on man's part, 'twas done before the clocked ticked once. (That's why the apostle Paul said that if “works” served as man's way to God, WE could boast about how WE “worked” our way into God's presence – see Ephesians 2:8-9)

Think of all this w/this illustration:

Parental "grace" or "favor" extended by adopted parents is "grace" extended to all they adopt, right?

But say you adopted a 12 yo boy who no matter what "pure gift" you gave to him @ his birthday or Christmas time, he would absolutely insist that he "work" for it..."pay you back" for it...and even eventually billed himself for "room and board" during his teen years to "pay you back" for that, too...

Believe me, such a 'tude exhibited by the "pay-back boy" would get old soon enough. How many times would the father say to Himself, "You know this boy can never pay back how I reached into the darkest part of the world to rescue him; yet he thinks he can 'earn' his way into sonship." At some point, this legalism is going to become "offensive" to a Gracious Father -- just like it would if your adopted son could never simply "receive" gifts from you.

Bottom line: Does the above describe a grace-filled father-son relationship?; or is that a legalistic tit-for-tat campaign to "prove" himself "worthy" as if he was a mere "house tenant" -- instead of acting like a true adopted son?

The apostle Paul also made it clear to the Galatians that they could nullify grace. Consider these three passages he wrote to them:

Galatians 2:21:
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! [My note: If we de-magnify God's grace, we set it apart...and belittle the cross of Christ, which the Mormons don't honor, anyway]

Galatians 3:1-3: 1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

Galatians 5:4: You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. [Example of grace nullification]

The apostle Paul also told the Romans – 11:5-6: 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then IT CANNOT BE BASED ON WORKS; IF IT WERE, GRACE WOULD NO LONGER BE GRACE.

Simply put: Grace is an unearned, undeserved, unmerited gift!

#1 8 For it is BY GRACE you have been saved, THROUGH FAITH—and this is NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT God— 9 NOT by works, so that no one can boast. (Eph. 2:8-9)

#2 Works nullify grace! ...at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it CANNOT be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. (Romans 11:5-6; cf. Gal. 2:15-16 -- justified by faith in Christ; not works of the law)

#3 We didn't qualify for eternal life; No, He qualified us: ...giving joyful thanks to the Father, who HAS qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. (Col. 1:12) [Do you see the PAST tense there -- "HAS qualified you" -- you seem to neglect too much of God's past tense actions & lean too heavily ONLY on either a present or future tense focus].

#4 Even considering future tense...what does Paul say? ...being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. (Phil. 1:6)

163 posted on 08/07/2012 12:23:40 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Elsie; stpio
[accusation that Luther was vile] Compared to WHOM?? SURELY not the Catholic hierarchy of his times!

LOL no kidding!

Know your popes: Historian Thomas W. Worcester traces dramatic changes in the papacy over 500 years
Follies of Roman Catholicism: How the Catholic Church failed to save itself from the Reformation
The Popes Of Rome
How the Renaissance Papacy contributed to the Reformation
God doesn’t create junk: Identifying a God worth serving
Top Ten Moments of the Reformation
The man who dared to laugh at the Pope ["Out of the Storm: The Life and Legacy of Martin Luther"]
THE CADAVER SYNOD: STRANGEST TRIAL IN HISTORY

164 posted on 08/07/2012 1:50:24 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2898271/posts?page=119#119)
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To: stpio

Yes, and that is Jesus Christ, not any man.


165 posted on 08/07/2012 1:56:23 PM PDT by roylene (Salvation the great Gift of Grace.)
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To: Alex Murphy

It wasn’t called the COUNTER Reformation for nothing!!!


166 posted on 08/07/2012 2:23:25 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: x; RaceBannon
I'm not sure that Mormons do believe that non-Mormons are all going to go to hell... [x, post #146]

Well...yes, Joseph Smith at least taught that Christians do go (to hell) ... at least if they reject Joseph Smith...although they do define "hell" distinctly:

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:] 'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

You can see reinforcement of the above by later Lds leaders if you look at the link below:

See sections 2, 3 & 4 of this thread If Mormonism is 'anti-Christian,' then how can it be considered 'Christian?'...
Note here that Mormon leaders (like Brigham Young + Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie) & reserved for those who don't accept Joseph Smith as the "passport" -- the official "consenter" -- of whether we as Christians can enter therein...as titles like the "anti-christ"...just for rejecting Smith.

Caveat: Mormons define "hell" as less than "eternal"; Smith defined "damnation" as "damned up" -- which, no, etymologically "damnation" NEVER meant "damned up"...so even when Smith consigned Christians "to hell"...Mormons can try to claim that wasn't eternally." (Still, Mormons say Christians WILL NOT be able to live eternally with Heavenly Father...no matter what they do or don't do...as long as they don't "convert" to temple Mormonism)

I'm not sure that Mormons do believe that non-Mormons are all going to go to hell, but plenty of non-Mormon Christians believe that people who don't believe as they do will go to hell, so what's the problem there? [x, post #146]

As for the last half of your statement, you're essentially asking, "Isn't this a kind of a level ground here? If Christians claim certain people might be hell-bound, what's wrong with Lds doing that?"

Allow me to clarify a few things: Christians don't simply claim that orthodoxy is THE way to heaven...tho we DO say -- that being in a right relationship with THE True God -- and His Son -- is vital...

For Jesus Himself said that...so it's NOT original with us:

3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (Jesus, John 17:3 during prayer to His Heavenly Father)

Likewise, also NOT original with us, is this statement from Jesus:

The Christian gospel: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by me." (Jesus Christ, the Head of the universal church, John 14:6)

Now...how is that distinct from Mormonism? Well, instead of Jesus Christ being "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" -- the Mormon church as made either...
... Joseph Smith" the passport, the consenter, the way...
...citations for that are found at: If Mormonism is 'anti-Christian,' then how can it be considered 'Christian?'...
...Or, it has made itself -- the Mormon Church -- as the way, the truth and the life...and that comes directly from Mitt Romney's father's cousin, Marion Romney, who was one of the top three hierarchists in the Mormon church for a while:
"This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. IT is the way, the truth, and the life" (Conference Report, April, 1961, p. 119)]

167 posted on 08/07/2012 3:16:06 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Elsie

I like that you proclaim Mormonism for what is...thanks.

Sorry, “FAITH ALONE” is a big fat lie and totally messes
up Protestants in so many areas, they come up with new
heresies like Jesus did all on the Cross, your sins have
been paid for, OSAS, etc.

“IT IS WRITTEN”, yes, but before it was written, God’s
revelation was passed down orally. There is an “ORAL”
revelation not contained in Scripture and you actually
believe some of it. Let us not get off on “Bible Alone”,
another of Martin Luther’s lies.

Something written down does not prove “SOLA FIDE.” Our
Lord keeps trying, even to this very day, speaking through
a Protestant messenger. God is getting you ready to accept
the true faith, Roman Catholicism.

It’s comes from a man not God...FAITH ALONE is a lie.

http://www.hearhisheart.wordpress.com

message to Kevin Barrett

August 7, 2012

This morning during my time with the Lord, He said these words to me: Son, tell My people that I have made a way for them.

Word of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Oh, My people, hear Me this day. I have made a way in the wilderness for you all these years. Have I not? Then I shall also make a way for you to cross the Jordan into your promised land.

Oh, My people, hear Me. There shall be many woes to come upon the land as I pour out My judgments. But for those that follow Me with a sincere heart, I shall provide for and protect. You shall not just get by in the days ahead, but shall prosper in all that you lay your hands to. For I shall have a people as a sign to the world that I, and I alone, am God. There is no other. You shall be blessed in your coming in and blessed in your going out. I shall bless all that you do as you carry My glory to the nations. Get ready, My people, for I shall do this quickly. Some of you have already tasted My goodness in the land of the living. But I shall do even greater things among you.

But hear Me, My little ones. This SHALL NOT BE for all those that call themselves by My name. THERE HAS BEEN A FALSE GOSPEL THAT PROCLAIMS ONLY MY GOODNESS AND PROMISES FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL BELIEVE. But I tell you now, My
children, that these are all LIES. And for those that have followed these lies, gravel shall be their reward. They shall not be blessed in all that they do and shall reap the whirlwind instead. For My promises are only for those that follow Me out of an OBEDIENT HEART. MY children hear My voice and follow Me wherever I lead. They shall not follow a stranger. And I, Myself, shall reach down from heaven and curse all that follow after other gods (idols). Oh, My children, how it pleases Me to give you the kingdom. Do not follow vein teachings any longer. But lay all at My feet and follow Me. I shall lead you into ALL TRUTH (the
Great Warning - stpio).

But woe unto those of you that choose not to obey and think that I shall bless your self efforts and DOCTRINES OF MAN. You do not know the hour in which you live. For this is My day and I shall bring down all that exalts itself above Me. Know this, My little ones, that I am meek and lowly of heart. It is not My desire for any of My children to perish. But there shall be many in these days that shall perish by sword, famine, pestilence and many other forms of My judgments. It does not have to be this way for you, My little ones. All I ask for is an OBEDIENT HEART. I shall do all the work in you and through you. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

So hear now, all that will have ears to hear. I go before you now to lead you into your promised land. But in crossing the Jordan, you shall lay all down at My feet. For any burden not of Me will be too heavy for you in the promised land. And it shall be your demise if you do not lay everything down. For in the promised land, you shall rest in Me and have no other burdens but My commands for you. Will you take My hand, My people, and follow Me into your promised land? If you do, you shall be thrilled beyond your expectations. Get ready, My people. For I stand at the door of your hearts now and knock. Will you open up to Me, My bride?


168 posted on 08/07/2012 3:37:09 PM PDT by stpio
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To: Colofornian
The Mormon "Heaven and Hell" stuff is so complicated that it's not clear that they do come out worse than you, if you believe that non-Christians are literally burning forever and ever, and they just assume that -- if they don't baptize you after you die -- you won't have access to the highest of Heavens.

But the question of just what "Mormons" or "Christians" or "Jews" or "Muslims" believe is also complicated by the fact that across time, you won't always find people believing what their co-religionists claimed to believe centuries ago.

169 posted on 08/07/2012 3:45:31 PM PDT by x
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To: Alex Murphy

[accusation that Luther was vile] Compared to WHOM?? SURELY not the Catholic hierarchy of his times!

“LOL no kidding!

Know your popes: Historian Thomas W. Worcester traces dramatic changes in the papacy over 500 years
Follies of Roman Catholicism: How the Catholic Church failed to save itself from the Reformation
The Popes Of Rome
How the Renaissance Papacy contributed to the Reformation
God doesn’t create junk: Identifying a God worth serving
Top Ten Moments of the Reformation
The man who dared to laugh at the Pope [”Out of the Storm: The Life and Legacy of Martin Luther”]
THE CADAVER SYNOD: STRANGEST TRIAL IN HISTORY”

~ ~ ~

You can post all the anti-Catholic links you want friend.

Doesn’t change the facts, the true faith is Roman Catholicism and all men are sinners. The misuse of indulgences was corrected at the Council of Trent. Luther stupidly went all the way, rejecting the faith and many have followed him.

God is going to change this, cause He can, in our time.
The 2nd Pentecost is soon. Accept what God shows you. Do
you not wish that we would all believe the same? God does.

Sometimes I think this hint would wake anyone up but pride,
so pray, ask Our Lord, is He going to unite Christianity,
bring the non-Christians to belief. No more division.

Here’s the hint...one more time.

The anti-Christ will attempt to abolish the most Holy
Eucharist. Why would he do that if it wasn’t true?

take care,


170 posted on 08/07/2012 3:58:48 PM PDT by stpio
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To: x; RaceBannon; All
The Mormon "Heaven and Hell" stuff is so complicated that it's not clear that they do come out worse than you, if you believe that non-Christians are literally burning forever and ever, and they just assume that -- if they don't baptize you after you die -- you won't have access to the highest of Heavens.

Of course, this is THE assumption of all assumptions: That you can have a "heaven" minus the eternal presence of Heavenly Father...which is exactly the faulty assumption of Mormonism re: their descriptions of the alleged existence of the "terrestrial" and "telestial" kingdoms...

(SORRY...but the very presence of Heavenly Father IS heaven...Lds say that the middle kingdom will at least have the presence of Jesus Christ...but if the presence of Jesus Christ is heaven, then earth was "heaven" for the 33 years Jesus was here)

But the question of just what "Mormons" or "Christians" or "Jews" or "Muslims" believe is also complicated by the fact that across time, you won't always find people believing what their co-religionists claimed to believe centuries ago.

Of course, but if we are to define the reality of heaven by what a given body of religionists believe at a given time -- that a "democratic vote" of acceptance or rejection of beliefs somehow trumps God's revealed revelation, then we're talking about man-made "religion" from the bottom-up; not God-revealed covenants & revelations from the top-down.

171 posted on 08/07/2012 4:09:23 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: RaceBannon

**sigh** so who do you want? 0bama? Then just give it up and go over to DU and live. This is not about religion.


172 posted on 08/07/2012 4:32:29 PM PDT by TrueFact
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To: stpio
There is an “ORAL” revelation not contained in Scripture and you actually believe some of it.

I do?

I believe the BIBLE called that the 'tradition of men'.

And you are trying to convince me to follow the 'tradition of the church'?

Homey don't play dat!

173 posted on 08/07/2012 4:54:16 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: stpio
You can post all the anti-Catholic links you want friend.

You SURE you ain't a MORMON?

This is THEIR tactic when the data contained in an ANTI-mormon link cannot be defended.

Are you SURE you want to merely accuse and run?

174 posted on 08/07/2012 4:56:47 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: stpio
The anti-Christ will attempt to abolish the most Holy Eucharist. Why would he do that if it wasn’t true?

Yup; you're a MORMON!!

This is what they teach their young heads full of mush:

MORMONism MUST be true; or else why would Satan oppose us so?

175 posted on 08/07/2012 4:58:23 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: TrueFact
**sigh** so who do you want? 0bama? Then just give it up and go over to DU and live. This is not about religion.

**sigh** so who do you want? A minion of the ANTI-christ? Then just give it up and go to Salt Lake City (or Provo) and live. This IS about religion!

176 posted on 08/07/2012 5:00:27 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: stpio
Do you not wish that we would all believe the same? God does.

Here's how I look at it - do you (since you are Catholic) believe in...

These are things that I believe in. Do you and I believe in the same things (at least on these points)? Is there something more important than these, for you?
177 posted on 08/07/2012 6:15:56 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2898271/posts?page=119#119)
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To: Alex Murphy; Elsie

Elsie, you brought it up...the heresy of “Sola Fide” in a reply to me, posting verses to try and prove it in your comment about the message to Father Doucette, Our Lord stating again NOTHING about Mormonism is true.

Please Alex, do not go to more questions about our Christian differences, they’ve been argued for centuries. Stick with one for right now, how do you make “Faith Alone” fit these Gospel verses? Take one at a time, give a response. Thanks.

You both are dear.

~ ~ ~

Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 2:24
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and NOT by faith only?

Colossians 1:10
That you may walk worthy of God, in all things pleasing; being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God:

1 Corinthians 3:13
Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is.

1 Peter 1:17
And if you invoke as Father him who, without respect of persons, judgeth according to every one’s work: converse in fear during the time of your sojourning here.


178 posted on 08/07/2012 8:21:40 PM PDT by stpio
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To: stpio
Please Alex, do not go to more questions about our Christian differences, they’ve been argued for centuries. Stick with one for right now...

I didn't ask about differences before, nor am I asking about them know. I'm not talking about differences, but about similarities. You wondered about whether "we would all believe the same". In response, I'm asking about what we believe that is the same - about the basics, the fundamentals, about what I believe are the most important and most cherished beliefs that (I thought) we both hold to as Trinitarian Christians.

Am I wrong in thinking that there's any commonality here?

179 posted on 08/07/2012 8:50:45 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2898271/posts?page=119#119)
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To: Alex Murphy

“I didn’t ask about differences before, nor am I asking about them know. I’m not talking about differences, but about similarities. You wondered about whether “we would all believe the same”. In response, I’m asking about what we believe that is the same - about the basics, the fundamentals, about what I believe are the most important and most cherished beliefs that (I thought) we both hold to as Trinitarian Christians.

Am I wrong in thinking that there’s any commonality here?”

~ ~ ~

No, it’s always been God’s desire we all believe the same.
A basic, a must believe and important to this thread is
belief in the Blessed Trinity. Mormons are non-Trinitarian
so they aren’t Christian. I am not sure on the Eastern Orthodox, if they believe exactly as Roman Catholics concerning the Trinity?

How about one at a time? Long posts are tedious, I’ll
reply to one on your list and you reply to one Gospel verse
on my list, show how the verse confirms “Sola Fide.”


180 posted on 08/07/2012 11:07:49 PM PDT by stpio
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