Posted on 03/17/2012 2:30:01 PM PDT by reaganaut
I understand the history of the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary (ἀειπαρθένος). I know it was taught as early as the 4th century, and I understand the development of "Spritual Marriages" in the Early Middle ages. That isn't what I am asking.
I have a good grasp of the history, doctrine and Biblical texts. I have done a lot of research on the topic. I grew up in Catholic school and Matthew 1:25 always got me in trouble during Catechism class.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (Matthew 1:25).
"Know" is a very common idiom for sex in Judaism of the period of writing. Again, I don't want to debate the text or history.
Protestants have no issue with Joseph and Mary having a normal marriage and having sexual relations AFTER the birth of Jesus (not before for obvious reasons) and having other children.
What I am curious about is the WHY the doctrine is important to MODERN Catholics (Medieval Catholics I get). Why does matter if Mary was ever-virgin (after the birth of Christ) or not?
I am honestly seeking some insight from modern-day Catholics on the WHY of the doctrine being so important.
I have discussed this with the Religion Mod (about making it Ecumenical) and he is aware that I am posting it as Ecumenical. No antagonism is allowed.
Hopefully, I can gain some insight.
Because Jesus is so important to Catholics.
And He is just as important to Protestants. That doesn’t answer my question in the least.
I think this might be down your alley...
Sal is the one that gave me the idea in the first place.
Luther, Calvin and Zwingli thought that the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary was important too.
Google it.
While waiting for those more versed, let me take a shot at it.
Jesus was born pure and that could only have happened with Mary being pure.
You can’t extract the Virgin Birth without extracting the Life of Christ — they are the same and inextricably linked.
I’m on my way to run an errand, will get back to you later.
>>Sal is the one that gave me the idea in the first place.<<
Good to know GMTA (and have the same fine contacts)...
Jesus is important because He is Jesus, not because of anything His earthly parents did or didn’t do.
But WHY?
When I was in Catholic school, we were discussing this doctrine, and I asked Sr. Josephine why when the Bibles we were using stated otherwise (again Matthew 1:25). She simply stated it was because it was dogma. That wasn’t enough of an answer then.
If it is simply a matter of dogma, then that is fine. I’m just curious.
Like we talked about the other day, I can go on for HOURS (and have) on the development of the doctrine and how it went through cycles of popularity in the Middle Ages.
I do not see it as an ‘essential doctrine’ and am wondering why Catholics do.
Jesus was born pure and that could only have happened with Mary being pure.
You can’t extract the Virgin Birth without extracting the Life of Christ — they are the same and inextricably linked.
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I agree completely. However that doesn’t answer the question as to why she MUST have remained a Virgin AFTER the birth of Christ.
You wrote:
“Jesus is important because He is Jesus, not because of anything His earthly parents did or didn’t do.”
Jesus is important, first, because He is the Son of God, and the Second Person of the Trinity. Second, because He redeemed all men.
Ok, stay safe and we will catch up later.
Mary’s virginity was only required one time.
Jesus is important, first, because He is the Son of God, and the Second Person of the Trinity. Second, because He redeemed all men.
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I am in NO WAY questioning the Virgin Birth, I believe that.
What I am wondering is why Mary had to remain a virgin her entire life?
Jesus was born of a Virgin, even if she and Joseph had a normal marriage after the birth of Jesus.
http://www.lourdes-france.org/index.php?goto_centre=ru&contexte=en&id=417&id_rubrique=417
My friend also saw the virgin in Lourdes, and experienced personal miracles.
Her newly found deep faith and devotion to Jesus and Mary puts my cradle Catholic faith to shame. The church has a long history of Marianic visitations like the Virgen of Guadalupe, all around the world and she continues to evangelize. Only those who have some idea of the real version of our long church history understand most concepts. Most Catholics, like myself just understand things intuitively.
You wrote:
“I am in NO WAY questioning the Virgin Birth, I believe that.”
I didn’t say you questioned it.
“What I am wondering is why Mary had to remain a virgin her entire life?”
Had to? First, get your vocabulary right. Mary chose to be a virgin. Also, once Mary gave herself over to God will, what God fearing man like Joseph would ever be anything but a guardian to her?
“Jesus was born of a Virgin, even if she and Joseph had a normal marriage after the birth of Jesus.”
They never had a conjugal marriage, nor was she ever planning on one either.
For me, as a Protestant Evangelical, the Immaculate conception (regarding original sin) I can see having an impact on theology. The Virgin Birth, obviously is important. But I don’t grasp the theological implications of the perpetual virginity of Mary being necessary.
My PhD is in Medieval History (Church history) and I’ve read the Catechism books, websites, apologetic sites ad nauseum.
Academically I understand the differences in the three doctrines but I still don’t see why Mary STAYING a Virgin is that important, even theologically. It doesn’t (IMO) change the person, work or nature of Christ in the least, since I fully believe Mary was a virgin when she conceived and bore Jesus.
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