Dour is not an attribute I would ever ascribe to John Piper. Perhaps you should look at just one of Piper's sermons - this is a man full of joy.
Excellent point.
I wonder what the daily special is.
Posted on 03/07/2012 10:24:56 AM PST by marshmallow
MINNEAPOLIS (ABP) – An author and preacher popular in Calvinist circles says it is no accident that recent killer tornadoes followed paths that ravaged some communities while others were spared.
“Why would God reach down his hand and drag his fierce fingers across rural America killing at least 38 people with 90 tornadoes in 12 states, and leaving some small towns with scarcely a building standing, including churches?” John Piper of Desiring God ministries wrote in a blog March 5.
Piper, pastor for preaching at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, said it is wrong to ascribe power capable of causing an estimated $2 billion worth of property damage to Mother Nature or the devil.
“God alone has the last say in where and how the wind blows,” Piper said. “If a tornado twists at 175 miles an hour and stays on the ground like a massive lawnmower for 50 miles, God gave the command.”
Piper said he doesn’t know why if God has a quarrel with America that he wouldn’t show his displeasure in Washington or Hollywood instead of places like Henryville, Ind., but that “every deadly wind in any town is a divine warning to every town.”
(Excerpt) Read more at abpnews.com ...
My daughter has a brain injury. She has been such an inspiration to me. She is much more faith filled than I am.
She never thinks that God did this to her. However, she lives by Jeremiah 29:11 “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”
God Bless you for your ministry!!
And if he's going to be a theological determinist in the Calvinist tradition, what he says must also be true about each hemorrhoid that pops out and the exact number and depth of thrusts of the knife wielded by a serial killer or the steak knife of someone sitting in Ruth's Chris.
Yup.
And the alternative is?
I was referring to hyper-Calvinist churches. I thought I was very clear.
No, you weren't. Do you know what "hyper-Calvinist" means?
Most Calvinists are dour folks anyway.Dour is not an attribute I would ever ascribe to John Piper.
Much of what I've seen so far in this thread (as of post 50) is just ignorance.
It just amazes me how Christians will spout off that God is in control, until something happens that offends their sensibilities. Then God had nothing to do with it....
Heidelberg Catechism, Lord's Day 9, question 27: "What do you understand by the providence of God?
"A. Providence is the almighty and ever present power of God by which he upholds, as with his hand, heaven and earth and all creatures, and so rules them that leaf and blade, rain and drought, fruitful and lean years, food and drink, health and sickness, prosperity and poverty, all things, in fact, come to us not by chance but from his fatherly hand."
I guess I'm supposed to give that up, in favor of a God for whom the world has slipped from his control, who frets, who has his hand forced, plays the hand he was dealt, etc. For a world in which suffering "just happens" and has no meaning.
Lord's Day 9, Question 26: " Q. What do you believe when you say,'I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth'?
"A. That the eternal Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who out of nothing created heaven and earth and everything in them, who still upholds and rules them by his eternal counsel and providence, is my God and Father because of Christ his Son.
"I trust him so much that I do not doubt he will provide whatever I need for body and soul, and he will turn to my good whatever adversity he sends me in this sad world.
"He is able to do this because he is almighty God. He desires to do this because he is a faithful Father."
Dour is not an attribute I would ever ascribe to John Piper. Perhaps you should look at just one of Piper's sermons - this is a man full of joy.
Excellent point.
I wonder what the daily special is.
Amo 4:7 "I also withheld the rain from you when there were yet three months to the harvest; I would send rain on one city, and send no rain on another city; one field would have rain, and the field on which it did not rain would wither;
Amo 4:8 so two or three cities would wander to another city to drink water, and would not be satisfied; yet you did not return to me," declares the LORD.
Amo 4:9 "I struck you with blight and mildew; your many gardens and your vineyards, your fig trees and your olive trees the locust devoured; yet you did not return to me," declares the LORD.
Amo 4:10 "I sent among you a pestilence after the manner of Egypt; I killed your young men with the sword, and carried away your horses, and I made the stench of your camp go up into your nostrils; yet you did not return to me," declares the LORD.
Amo 4:11 "I overthrew some of you, as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and you were as a brand plucked out of the burning; yet you did not return to me," declares the LORD.
Judging by many of these posts, many still do not see the sovereignty of God to return to Him in this. We really have invented a god after our own image.
I’ve never heard of him. Where is he a meteorologist?
This “joke” seemed pretty sarcastic to me.
Good point Harley. Instead they ridicule Him.
You seem to be saying that Jesus is someone who can rebuke God. Jesus IS God, therefore He cannot rebuke Himself. Instead of proving your point, your scripture reference actually shows you to be in error. Jesus is showing that He IS God and able to control the storm - that all things are under His control. This is yet another example from what He did and said that where He showed His disciples His deity. (cf Psalm 65:7, Job 38:11, etc.) Also think about why the storm came.
If God is out to wipe out sin using the form of a twister
You have missed the point. First of all, God was not using the wind to wipe out sin. Christ Jesus wiped out the penatly and power of sin on the cross and with His resurrection for those that trust Him and His return and final judgement WILL wipe out all sin. It won't be piecemeal by wind or rain, but totally by fire.
then I can suggest other countries to be devastated rather then the mid-west USA
The point is not that one part of the world is less evil than another. ALL of the earth is affected by the fall and ALL deserve eternal punishment. Piper's orginal article, and as it has been pointed out clearly on this thread that the storm is not a punishment to any certain people. Did you read Piper's article. We all deserve to be devastated.
Instead, the only One who was without sin, Jesus Christ, took all of our devastation upon Him --so that those who willingly trust in Him, who understand that there is nothing they can do to win God's favor and that God Himself took our place and desire to follow Him --they will be spared the final and eternal devastation. And instead of devastation in that Day, they will be clothed in His righteousness and glory.
As Piper said - the tornados are only a reminder of this somber truth- that earthly death comes to us all when we least expect it so we need to have our hearts cleansed with repentance.
They want a god that caters to their feelings and their accomplishments and their desires. A god that follows them. It amazes me how much scripture twisting occurs to accomplish that. They don't realize that it is all about His glory, His worthiness, and our unworthiness. Only when we realize that and give Him the glory do we really get what we crave - peace with God through Christ.
"The devil and wicked men are so held in on every side with the hand of God, that they cannot conceive, or contrive, or execute any mischief, any farther than God himself doth not permit only, but command. Nor are they only held in fetters, but compelled also, as with a bridle, to perform obedience to those commands." (Calvin's Institutes b. 1, c. 17, s. 11.)
"...when God makes angels or men sin, he does not sin himself, because he does not break any law. For God is under no law, and therefore cannot sin." (Zwingli, Sermon on Providence, c. 5, 6.)
How blessed you are to see God through your daughter! Although we aren’t Lutheran, there is a Lutheran ministry (LDS/SonRise) that helps churches start and maintain these bible studies. They are associated with Bethesaisda Lutheran Ministries. There is a group here in the midwest that works with bible teaching evangelical churches willing to have this ministry. There is a great, great need for it. Our church is a PCA church and they now have a missions team that works with PCA churches to have special needs ministries in their church.
I have to say that everyone that I have talked with that ministers to these people knows they are much more blessed and their faith strengthened by this. They are all such a living example of the faith of a child. One that we all need.
IMO it's reflective of our culture. As a people we now take a dim view of stern fathers who discipline their children. Discipline, rigor and pleasure deferred are negative concepts. Fathers-if they are even taken into consideration at all-are expected to be "mommies with facial hair." God hardly comports with our modern gelded father-concept, so we must give Him a new image. A rebranded God for our shallow, superficial generation. Huggy Jesus, if you will. Huggy Jesus would never allow anything bad to happen to anyone, yet bad things happen, ergo Huggy Jesus isn't in control. He's watching from a distance, wringing His hands and hoping it all works out OK.
Phew...off the soapbox now.
Here is a brief introduction to hyper-Calvinism. Most FR Calvinists would fall under the third category under Dr. Johnson’s ranking scheme. Some FR Calvinists could even be classified in the second category.
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm
then I can suggest other countries to be devastated rather then the mid-west USAThe point is not that one part of the world is less evil than another. ALL of the earth is affected by the fall and ALL deserve eternal punishment. Piper's orginal article, and as it has been pointed out clearly on this thread that the storm is not a punishment to any certain people. Did you read Piper's article. We all deserve to be devastated.
Why does anyone think that rural, smalltown Midwest America is innocent?
The upper floor of a place I used to work at had some unusual features. Word was "this used to be a whorehouse." Made sense, bathtubs in niches every 15 feet. This would date to Nineteen ought something or earlier. This is a quarter mile from "Piety Hill", where there is a church literally every single block. Hmmm.
There are persistent local rumors, over a long period of time from multiple sources, of "devil worshippers" out in the rural boonies, here in my little neck of rural smalltown America. Hmm.
Innocent?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.