Posted on 02/14/2012 7:11:25 AM PST by C19fan
Mocking Mormonism is one of the last frontiers of verbal lawlessness to be untouched by the vigilante powers of political correctness. What other group is ridiculed equally by Christians and secularists—and not just any kind of Christian or secularist but the most fervent and hard core? Fervent Christians see in Mormonism a mirror distorting their own faith, reflecting an image strangely recognizable yet recognizably strange. Hard-core secularists think Mormonism is the best example of the strangeness and danger inherent in all religious belief. Deriding Mormonism pulls off the neat trick of making the devout and the godless feel as if they are on the same side.
(Excerpt) Read more at firstthings.com ...
Furthermore I can respect other faiths such a the Jews, the Buddhist and such because they do not pretend to be what they are not Jews are Jews, Buddhist are Buddhist, they do not co-opt and corrupt the beliefs of others for their own devices.
The LDS is the exact opposite. Their additional “scripture” is a shame and they steal the very name and story of Christ and twist it to their own ends.
Their is a very real definition of what a Christian is and since you profess to be one perhaps you know it.
It has nothing to do with what the LDS profess about My Savior, the one they steal from me and lie about.
This “room for thought” on what a defines a Christian is modern all paths Oprah Winfrey malarkey, and is what is destroying Christianity as fast as any outside force can.
And again leads me to ask why you are not a Mormon.
Don’t call me names, post insulting pictures and bear false witness against me, and tell me that I cannot be a Christian.
I didn’t judge your wife, I asked you this, about your personal church.
“”It doesn’t trouble you that your church tells you that your own wife’s religion is not a Christian religion,? “””
Now I’m trying to figure out if you are Catholic as I assumed, or Jehovah’s Witness, which church do you belong to?
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When you make yourself a judge over my wife and call her a non-Christian it is an insult. There is only one Judge, you are not Him. Don’t insult my wife.
I don’t mention my religion on purpose. There will be those who will ridicule that too so I do not hold my faith up to ridicule.
I am a singer, the majority of churches I have sung in and the majority of the priests I have made friends with are Catholic. In speaking to my close priest friends and even those who are not so close, none of them have condemned my wife as non-Christian. They all espouse the ecumenical stuff about only being one Church of Christ and that if we worship Christ we are a part of that church. I tell them that that is not the doctrine of the Church but they tell me it is. They tell me that they may judge their members worthiness to take communion but are not judges of other people, that it is between God and the individual. I normally don’t like ecumenical sophistry but I do appreciate those words.
I believe there are many ways a man can be brought to Christ, I don’t think it matters how you get there only that you arrive in time.
My close association with Mormons finds in general a good, God fearing people. They are kind to a fault. Generous to an astounding degree. One Mormon told me once “by their fruits ye shall know them” as a scriptural quotation. Let me tell you, they got the fruits.
I’m not sure whether I care that they might not believe everything that everyone else believes, I know that they believe in Christ. I know that they sincerely try to follow Him and Love Him. The other stuff, it’s just stuff.
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned; and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given, and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned. Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
I don't understand how Mormons can live with such denial about their religion?
"I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity" (Moroni 8:18)
"For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today and forever, and in him there is no variableness, neither shadow of changing? And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles" (Mormon 9:9-10)
"Here, then, is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God. And you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves--to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done--by going from a small degree to another, from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you are able to sit in glory as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power." - King Follett Discourse
Moroni and Mormon describe God as immutable and unchanging. The KFD shows something else. How can you believe that God is at the same time immutable and changing, that from all eternity he was as he now is, but he somehow evolved from a mere mortal?
If God evolved, Moroni and Mormon are wrong. If God didn’t evolve, the KFD and Joseph Smith is wrong. Which is it?
Why you insist on making things up about me, even as you quote my posts proving them false, is puzzling.
It was you that judged me, personally attacked me, posted an insulting picture at me, and said that I cannot be a Christian.
I merely pointed out that your church (assuming it is a Christian church), which you will not identify (which says a lot), knows that your wife’s religion is not a Christian religion.
Take the Catholic church for example, if you became a Catholic, would they recognize your baptism from your existing church?
Good question. One I've seen raised only once elsewhere.
If Christ already returned -- coming to central or South America -- doesn't that militate vs. His promises recorded in scripture?
So His return was done in a corner of the world?
“I believe there are many ways a man can be brought to Christ, I don’t think it matters how you get there only that you arrive in time.”
That is true, but it misses the point of this thread, which is mormons don’t accept Jesus Christ in all His glory. Mormon beliefs prevent them from ever coming to accept Christ fully.
The writer says that Smith and Mormonism understood as concrete and material things that other Christians considered metaphorical or metaphysical. So God's body had to be physical and material. Heaven had to be a place with a spacial location or locations in our universe. "Holy garments" had to have an actual material equivalent. Religious community, authority, and responsibilities had to be more concretely described and instituted than they were in most other denominations.
I don't know how accurate he is, but it does explain many of the features of Mormonism that strike others as "strange" or "weird." Of course, 19th century Christians did tend to understand the Bible in a more literal sense than later Christians did.
Yes, very disappointed as well.
The article also is curious because it does a constant shuffle dance. Mormons love Christ. But their Christ is not the same as the Christian Christ. Well, yes.
Yes, Webb the prof-author lauds much of Mormonism; yet concedes in the article that the Mormons have a distinct Jesus.
Well, look @ Webb's history: He grew up in a restorationist church (these churches tend to write off Christianity entoto -- except for themselves); then Webb became Disciples of Christ during graduate school; then he was briefly a Lutheran...and now for the past 5 years has been Roman Catholic.
(Perhaps Mormonism is just the next stop on his religious tour as he's lookin' over his options)
Source for above info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_H._Webb
Yet you will hold your Wife's faith up for ridicule?
My how brave of you...
Mormons are obsessed not only with Jeshua bar Joseph, that you call Christ, which was not his name, but with Jews in general.
“February 14, 2012 - Mormon church leaders have apologized to the family of Holocaust survivor and Jewish rights advocate Simon Wiesenthal after his parents were baptized posthumously in a Mormon temple ritual last month.
Salt Lake City researcher Helen Radkey found documentation of the baptism while conducting regular checks of a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints genealogical database last week.
Mormons believe posthumous baptism by proxy rites allow deceased persons to receive the Gospel in the afterlife.
The baptism of Holocaust victims was supposed to be barred by a 1995 agreement between the church and Jews, although some submissions continue by church members.
Church officials say the person who entered the names into the database has been disciplined.
The California-based Wiesenthal Center expressed outrage and called the rite insensitive.”
http://www.newsmax.com/US/Mormon-baptize-holocaust-Wiesenthal/2012/02/14/id/429412
I don’t agree that that interpretation, because firstly, it is specifically referring to “this book of prophecy”. The Revelation is a book of prophecy, while the Bible in it’s entirety cannot be limited to that description. Occam’s razor, in this case, says we should assume it only refers to Revelation and not the less likely scenario.
Secondly, the punishment cited for disobedience mentions the curses contained in the same book. If the book that is referred to is Revelation, then what those curses are is immediately clear, while if the book is the Bible as a whole, then this clause becomes unspecific and, therefore, a much less concrete warning.
Finally, there is the reason I previously cited, that the New Testament wasn’t even a collected work at the time that verse was written, much less with Revelation in its traditional place as the final book in the collection. So, in order to make the warning refer to the Bible, you’d have to assume that the warning was prophetic in order to have it make any sense.
Basically, in all those circumstances, you have to do some logical gymnastics to justify the verse as applying to the Bible. If you don’t have that goal in mind, the plain reading is that it is just referring to Revelation itself.
I would really like to stay and continue this “conversation”, but, I’m already a half hour late. Gotta go home to my “hot” Mormon wife. I love her with all that I have, she is as fine a person as I have ever met in this life.
I am no youngster. I have met and supped with the likes of Harlan Sanders, Bob Hope, Both presidents Bush and many other really great people and some not so great people. Not one of them out shines my wonderful wife. She loves me despite my religious views and beliefs. After the Love of the Savior I am most thankful for her love. She, despite whatever is said here is a fine Christian woman. Perhaps no body on this earth is really qualified to make that statement, but, I am the closest to being qualified to make that statement and it is true! If my wife is not a Christian then there are no Christians.
Sorry for my earlier anger, good evening all.
LOL
Nice catch, Ejones.
Wait a minute. If you're labeling Ansel as a "judge," that means you're judging him. If you're judging him, then haven't you made yourself a judge over him?
But yet you preach not to make oneself a judge over your wife?
Which is it? Are we to practice what you preach -- or how you act yourself?
Even if you are right regarding revelations, it is distinction without a difference. The OT & the NT both contain admonitions against adding or taking away. It is fundamental. Which verse you cite for that is hardly a major issue. You could be ticky tacky and say revelation is not correct for that purpose, but it doesn’t give a green light for islam or mormonism. Like I posted immediately after, Galatians works just fine for the exact same premise.
Galatians 1: 6-12 (specifically verse 8 and 9 )
8 “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”
9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
* handles islam and mormonism
According to your own post mormons would be godS fearing people.
“fruits” is in reference to false prophets. And I agree they do have the fruits of false prophets.
We are commended by GOD to call out false prophets and false teachings.
Jak, mormonism is not Christianity.
Interesting that you are driven to request advice about your wife and Mormonism from so many various Catholic leaders, it is even more interesting that although you try to tell them correctly that the church teaches that Mormonism is not Christian, they resist you.
As Priests you would think that at least a few of them would know that a Mormon has to convert to Christianity, and be baptized to become a Catholic, and they know that Christians are forbidden by the church to be baptized twice, so a baptized Baptist convert for instance, is not baptized by the Catholic church, whereas a baptized Mormon, is required to be baptized by the Catholic church.
Oh come on! What a cop out.
Not one person here has had anything negative to say about an individual mormon simply for being a mormon.
To quote you, “lame”.
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