AS THE WORLD TURNS on the religion forum!
It Is..........
THE USUAL SUSPECTS on both sides!
For What Else?..............
SPIRITUAL LOVE! WE ARE THE WORLD!
Posted on 01/02/2012 3:13:39 PM PST by RnMomof7
LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy — For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Why are you posting articles from 2007?
If one doesn’t agree with Catholics and Orthodox on Apostolic Succession, why would this be is shocking? And why would anyone care how Catholic and Orthodox define the Church if they don’t agree with Apostolic Succession?
From the 2007 article you posted and quoted:
“...because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation.”
From what was released: “It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church”[12].
Fox news must not have even bothered to read what was released. The Ap story didn’t even have a link to the document!! I mean it was right there in the text.
Here’s a link in case anyone wants to read it, it isn’t very long:
Freegards
Metmom answered you about “appointing” a successor to Judas. I didn’t know that the College of Cardinals shot craps to determine the next pontiff!
As far as schismatic - Council of Trent. The Roman Catholics are the splinter, not the Eastern Orthodox. Sorry, but that’s the fact. And they have as much claim to the “See of Peter” as the Bishop of Rome has.
"Out" of what, exactly? For a Catholic Pope to observe that Protestant bodies are not "true churches" or "churches properly so-called" is equivalent to noting that they don't have Apostolic succession (and in most cases, don't believe that it exists anyway).
So you're "out of" the Catholic church and "in to" an organization that rejects Apostolic succession as both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox understand it. But you already knew that, which means that the Pope doesn't consider you anymore "out" than you already consider yourself. So what's your point?
Incidentally, doesn't the PCA consider the Pope pretty much completely "out" ... out of Christianity, out of salvation, etc.?
“That means only the Orthodox are true Churches based on the definition of St. Ignatius of Antioch from 105 A.D.”
And what, pray tell, did “St. Ignatius” say?
“The Catholic Church should not alter or water down its teaching to placate Protestants.”
And therein lies the problem: “its teaching.” Not Scripture, but “its teaching.” Hate to say it, but catholicism is not the authority - Scripture is. And the renegade Protestants for years have known that “its teaching” is the problem. Like praying to Mary, regarding Mary and the leader of catholicism as sinless. Blasphemy is what that is, pure blasphemy.
(By the way, I am neither Protestant or Catholic.)
It does? What is your basis for saying that?
I am saying to read the entire part of Scripture and not take one phrase out of context.
“And if it IS correct - then the Roman Catholic church isn’t a real church, as it split from the Eastern Orthodox and thus no longer has Apostolic succession.”
“Because these Churches, although separated, have true sacraments and above all – because of the apostolic succession – the priesthood and the Eucharist, by means of which they remain linked to us by very close bonds”[13], they merit the title of “particular or local Churches”[14], and are called sister Churches of the particular Catholic Churches.[15]”
That is from the 2007 release. It was in reference to the “oriental Churches.” If the Orthodox Churches don’t think Catholics retain apostolic succession, why do they call the Pope the Bishop of Rome?
In any case the Western Church thinks the Eastern Church has apostolic succession, or they wouldn’t call them the “Church.” They have a line of bishops and true Sacraments.
Freegards
You are soooo right.
I'm not saying anything that is of me. My Messiah spoke quite clearly when he quoted them. And since they are his words & not mine, then one must place his words over that of any doctrine of man.
Mt 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[Dt 6:5] 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[Lev 19:18] 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Deuteronomy 6:5 “And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might”
Leviticus 19:18 “Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD”
And since Yeshua Messiah says that All Torah & Prophets hang on/from these two, that means they are never to be separated, but are to be handled according to these two great commandments. IOW, not my words, they are the words of "THE WORD".
Out of the *Church* which means out of salvation and out of heaven.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15126a.htm
The Bull lays down dogmatic propositions on the unity of the Church, the necessity of belonging to it for eternal salvation, the position of the pope as supreme head of the Church, and the duty thence arising of submission to the pope in order to belong to the Church and thus to attain salvation.
Then follow some principles and conclusions concerning the spiritual and the secular power:
"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff" (Porro subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanae creaturae declaramus, dicimus, definimus, et pronuntiamus omnino esse de necessitate salutis).
Comments: **Issued by the dept. of the inquisition **
That is not in the article. I did read it. That’s why I asked for her source for that comment.
AS THE WORLD TURNS on the religion forum!
It Is..........
THE USUAL SUSPECTS on both sides!
For What Else?..............
SPIRITUAL LOVE! WE ARE THE WORLD!
I did. She said not only does she, but so does any believing catholic.
Try again.
Hank
“regarding Mary and the leader of catholicism as sinless.”
The leader of Catholicism, as you’ve termed it, is Jesus Christ, and He is sinless. Calling that blasphemy? I hope not. He is also the Son of God, the second person of the Blessed Trinity, and possessing two natures, one divine, one human.
As others herein have noted, a FIVE YEAR-OLD article was posted as new in this forum. It takes but a small amount of time to realize that this was unlikely to have been an accident. Isn’t that right, O original poster?
FYI - at SBC conventions there are “messengers” sent from each church which affiliates. They DO vote on every resolution which comes before the convention - as representatives of their churches. Now you know.
Just tell the parish priest your wife says she worships Mary as divine and you don’t think that sounds Christian, and see what he says.
Freegards
Here is what Scripture says:
“Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.”
What exactly am I taking out of context as you assert? Catholicism teaches that its adherents should call its leader “Pope,” which means “father,” right? So why do you call someone - a mere fallible mortal just like you and me - “Pope”?
I was not referring to Jesus Christ, the one and only sinless One who died for our sins.
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