A Biblical Basis for the "Immaculate Conception"?

AO Ministries ^ | 1991 | James White

[fishtank]

A Biblical Basis for the "Immaculate Conception"?

A Review and Rebuttal of Patrick Madrid's Article "Ark of the New Covenant" in "This Rock" magazine, December 1991.

by James White

Catholic Answers has some interesting ways of grabbing your attention. By placing the beginning paragraph or two of the lead article of their monthly magazine, This Rock, on the very cover of the work, they draw your attention into reading the rest of the article. True to form, the December, 1991 edition sported Pat Madrid's article, "Ark of the New Covenant" with the interesting lead in, "His face stiffened, and his eyes narrowed to slits. Until now the Calvary Chapel pastor had been calm as he `shared the gospel' with me, but when I mentioned my belief in Mary's Immaculate Conception, his attitude changed." Using a "real-life" backdrop for the presentation of some particular topic is another fine writing tool used by the folks at Catholic Answers. As you continue to read about this encounter, you discover that our author, Pat Madrid, is going to provide Biblical support for his belief in the Immaculate Conception of Mary. He writes of his encounter with the Protestant pastor,

More at link......

[fishtank]

For December 8th.

P.S. I grew up going to Mass on this day, without fail.

P.P.S. The Scriptural texts against the idea of the I.C. were compelling. About two years after getting saved, I left the RCC.

[fishtank]

James White

[Servant of the Cross]

The Story of St. Bernadette at Lourdes

AD DIEM ILLUM LAETISSIMUM: Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 2, 1904.

[DarkSavant]

Using the author's standards, there is not enough evidence in the Bible to justify the teacing of the Trinity, yet for some reason he clings to that. I'd ask the author why the Immaculate Conception is unbiblical yet the doctrine of the Trinity is.

And, yes, early Christians did believe the Immaculate Conception in antiquity.

"Every personal sin must be excluded from the Blessed Virgin Mary for the sake of the honor of God." - St. Augustine

"Mary, a virgin not only undefiled but a virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free from every stain." - St. Ambrose of Milan (340-397)

Even Martin Luther did:

It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527). - Martin Luther

HAPPY FEAST OF THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION!

[A CA Guy]

Did the Protestant Pastor explain why their faith seemed to originate on a former Catholic national leader breaking away to get a divorce?
Kind of sounds the same as the gays making their own Gay churches to me.

[A CA Guy]

Did the Protestant Pastor explain why their faith seemed to originate on a former Catholic national leader breaking away to get a divorce?
Kind of sounds the same as the gays making their own Gay churches to me.

[fishtank]

What I believe is based on Scripture, on the teachings of Christ.

I don’t follow Luther, Calvin or Henry.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

Saw a show on Saudi TV “debunking” the IC. Their reasons were that such a thing has never happened before or after but their most damming evidence was that they said it couldn't happen. It was basically a “so there” on those points. My guess is that they don't win many debates outside of the country.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

I think (yup...just my thoughts) the 'Immaculate Conception' was an incredible theological solution to the problems that the 'sacrificial lambs' blood had to be pure, perfect, sinless, spotless. For the blood of Jesus to be effective when shed, he couldn't be stained by sin. Enter the Immaculate Conception - the blood of Mary, then of Jesus, was perfect. Problem solved!

What wasn't understood at the time was the the blood from the mother did not pass to the child. Interesting point that, in this case, the truth of science didn't catch up to the bible until I don't know when.

[DarkSavant]

Specifically, there are only a few passages relating to the Holy Spirit, yet the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity. He dodges the issue by simply saying “well, there’s PLENTY of evidence for that!”. Show me.

[BenKenobi]

So what books are in your bible?

[A CA Guy]

Christ gave not only the Word but the leaders to follow through the first choosen one Peter.

The break aways from the original due to divorce, wanting gay whatever, pick and choose this or that are kind of messed up; but if they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior for their Salvation they have the main part down IMO.

[DarkSavant]

What wasn't understood at the time was the the blood from the mother did not pass to the child. Interesting point that, in this case, the truth of science didn't catch up to the bible until I don't know when.

Huh? Jesus did not have Mary's genes(and mitochondria)? Adam was not Mary's ancestor?

[Salvation]

And you are still a Catholic. So come back to Mass and hear the Scripture that tells us that the Blessed Virgin Mary was. indeed, Immaculate, so that she could carry the Son of God, Jesus, in her womb.

You wouldn’t have wanted Jesus to be born with original sin, would you?

For all things are possible with God.

[Campion]

I think (yup...just my thoughts) the 'Immaculate Conception' was an incredible theological solution to the problems that the 'sacrificial lambs' blood had to be pure, perfect, sinless, spotless. For the blood of Jesus to be effective when shed, he couldn't be stained by sin. Enter the Immaculate Conception - the blood of Mary, then of Jesus, was perfect.

That may be the theological rationale you advance, but it isn't the rationale the Catholic Church uses.

The argument is really pretty simple:

1. The fourth commandment of the Decalogue (using the Protestant numbering) says, "Honor thy father and thy mother".
2. Jesus fulfilled this commandment perfectly.
3. Jesus, uniquely among sons, also created his own mother.
4. Creating someone with original sin isn't "honoring" them; neither original sin nor actual sin ever honors anyone.
5. Therefore, Jesus honored his mother by creating her free from original sin, thus fulfilling the commandment ... perfectly.

The Scriptures bear this out. Luke's Gospel has the angel greeting Mary as "kecharitomene", as though it were her name. That's the perfect passive participle of charitoo, "to grace". It means that Mary was completely graced as an already completed action, hence Jerome translated it into Latin as gratia plena, or "full of grace".

[stuartcr]

What if there really is no original sin?

[Campion]

You wouldn’t have wanted Jesus to be born with original sin, would you?

Jesus couldn't have been born with original sin in any case; he's God.

[Campion]

The Scriptural texts against the idea of the I.C. were compelling.

The only "Scriptural texts against the idea of the I.C." I've ever heard fell flat on their face, because they assume the idea that the I.C. means Mary saved herself, when the dogma itself flatly states the opposite.

[Salvation]

And that’s exactly why the Blessed Virgin Mary was saved from Original Sin so that she could carry him in her womb.

[RoadGumby]

Mary needed Jesus as Savior as much anyone else.

There is NONE good, no not one, ALL have fallen short of the Glory of God.

Mary was favored AMONG women, not ABOVE.