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Tis the season for Smithmas; Whom do you worship? [Mormon Merry Smithmas]
Life After Ministry: Leading Mormons to the REAL Jesus Christ ^ | April 17, 2011 [original: December 2008] | Michelle Grim

Posted on 12/06/2011 6:06:40 AM PST by Colofornian

‘TIS THE SEASON for Smithmas

(Originally posted in December 2008)

Here we are with another Thanksgiving and Christmas season upon us! I love this time of year for the changing colors of the trees, the air smells like the season’s cold is getting ready to lay itself down upon us, and of course for the food. Yum!

Alas, I would be remiss if I were to go about my day in this glorious time without giving my favorite reason…Jesus!

While December 25th may not be the actual date of Jesus’ birth, it serves as a great reminder for us as to why we celebrate to begin with!

I was writing an article a few weeks ago when I noticed a pattern of sorts in my copy of the Gospelink Program I use for research on Mormonism. It has a section where you can store your favorite quotes and scriptures for easy access. Skimming through the file for a specific quote, I noticed how many entries I had placed in this folder for references in regards to Joseph Smith and the homage members pay to him.

I have written many times on the importance of Smith’s claims and the impact they have upon the members of the Church. I could write a book on the many letters we receive and how many times I’ve been told that they do not worship Joseph Smith, but as I’ve said before and will say again…you be the judge and read what they say! Below are a mere handful of examples of what they think of ol’ Joe.

1. Choice seer 9. Voice crying/wilderness 17. People studied at feet of
2. Joseph and God partners 10. Has more to boast of 18. Smith's greatness
3. Brings purpose to life 11. Is meek and lowly 19. Gospel according to Joe
4. Did more than anyone 12. Is needed, foreordained 20. Superior intelligence
5. Is god to all 13. Not always a prophet 21. Praise to the man
6. Helped save world 14.Not armed 22. Knowledge of God from
7. Holds keys of authority 15. Related to Jesus 23. Greater than Isaiah
8. Was a Mason 16. Smith's consent needed 24. Is both Jew and Gentile

For the sake of brevity, I will be posting only the vital parts of the actual document, but will include the exact location for the reader to do further investigation. If you cannot find the documentation in your own books or library you can read them at www.lds.org for verification. As always, I strongly encourage each member of the Church to read the actual document for proof as I have nothing to hide.

1. Joseph Smith: The Choice Seer, epilogue: “Ours is the song of praise to the man ordained from eternity past to part the veil and open the heavens, for through him the fulness of truth and the fulness of priesthood powers have come to earth again.” – Joseph Fielding McConkie.

2. Handbook of the Restoration [pamphlets], pg. 50; “…God chose this man. He spoke through him. The virgin, unsophisticated mind of the youth was a fertile field for the planting of spiritual seeds. They grew and matured into a perfect faith that brought Joseph into partnership with God. When that came to be, there was nothing unattainable, for as we are told of old, one man and God are a majority.” – Various Authors

3. Handbook of the Restoration [pamphlets], pg. 50-1; “If any man has received in his heart the witness of the divine truth embraced in the contributions of the Prophet Joseph, I charge him to be true,-true to his testimony, true to the Prophet, the founder, true to the cause… If any man has not received this witness, I appeal for his thoughtful, prayerful, sympathetic consideration. I offer to him…assurance that if he will receive and apply the teachings of Joseph Smith he will be made happy. Doubt and uncertainty will leave him…” – Various Authors

4. Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pgs. 22-3; “…He opened up communication with the heavens in his youth. He brought forth the Book of Mormon, which contains the fullness of the Gospel… In a word, he did more in from 14 to 20 years for the salvation of man than any other man save Jesus only, that ever lived. (JD 24:14-15.).” – Comment by Joseph F. Smith. Also D&C 135.

5. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 363; “…God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it. I have been giving Elder Adams instruction in some principles to speak to you, and if he makes a mistake, I will get up and correct him. (April 8, 1844.).”

6. The Doctrine and Covenants Speaks, 2:456; “One of Joseph Smith’s contributions to the salvation of men in this world was the bringing forth of “. . . the Book of Mormon, which he translated by the gift and power of God. . . . ” (D&C 135:3.).”

7. Doctrines of Salvation 1:192; “ONLY JOSEPH SMITH FULFILS ANCIENT PROMISES. Joseph Smith declared that he, with Oliver Cowdery, his companion, received the keys of the gathering of Israel. No one else ever claimed to have had them revealed to him. If Joseph Smith did not receive them, then someone must be empowered with this authority before the coming of the Lord…Malachi has said that the Lord would send Elijah before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. The Prophet Joseph Smith said he (Elijah) came to him and Oliver Cowdery with the keys of that power. If he did not, and they have told a falsehood….”

8. Answers: Straightforward Answers to Tough Gospel Questions, pgs. 48-9; “Joseph Smith and many of the leading brethren of that day were Masons. The question implies that there is something secret or sinister in their Masonic affiliation. This was hardly the case. The Saints who built Nauvoo built a Masonic lodge there. It is among the buildings that have been restored in Nauvoo, and visitors are encouraged to visit it…It is not inconceivable that the Prophet, sensing something about the ancient roots of Masonry, inquired of the Lord about it. In that sense it may have been one of the influences that prepared the way for the revelations that restored the ceremonies of the temple…The idea that the kind of faith and courage common to our pioneer forebears grew out of rituals copied from a fraternal organization is ludicrous.”

9. Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 200; “In relation to the power over the minds of mankind which I hold, I would say, It is in consequence of the power of truth in the doctrines which I have been an instrument in the hands of God of presenting unto them, and not because of any compulsion on my part…Why do not my enemies strike a blow at the doctrine? They cannot do it: it is truth, and I defy all men to upset it. I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, “Repent ye of your sins and prepare the way for the coming of the Son of Man…”

10. Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 31; “The Prophet’s Effectiveness – I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. (HC 6:408-9.)”

11. History of the Church 5:218; “Some of the company thought I was not a very meek Prophet; so I told them: “I am meek and lowly in heart,” and will personify Jesus for a moment, to illustrate the principle, and cried out with a loud voice, “Woe unto you, ye doctors; woe unto you, ye lawyers; woe unto you, ye scribes, Pharisees, and hypocrites!” &c. But you cannot find the place where I ever went that I found fault with their food, their drink, their house, their lodgings; no, never; and this is what is meant by the meekness and lowliness of Jesus.”

12. Doctrines of Salvation 1:184; “Joseph Smith was chosen to stand at the head of the work of the Lord in the last days, and his work was assigned to him through the fore-knowledge of our Eternal Father in the eternities before he was born. He came in the spirit of Elias to prepare the way for the coming of our Lord. No prophet since the days of Adam, save, of course, our Redeemer, has been given a greater mission.”

13. Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 179; “My enemies say that I have been a true prophet. Why, I had rather be a fallen true prophet than a false prophet. When a man goes about prophesying, and commands men to obey his teachings, he must either be a true or false prophet. False prophets always arise to oppose the true prophets and they will prophesy so very near the truth that they will deceive almost the very chosen ones. (HC 6:364.)”

14. History of the Church, 6:364-5; “…He that arms himself with gun, sword, or pistol, except in the defense of truth, will sometime be sorry for it. I never carry any weapon with me bigger than my penknife. When I was dragged before the cannon and muskets in Missouri, I was unarmed. God will always protect me until my mission is fulfilled.(Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 vols., introduction and notes by B. H. Roberts [Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1932-1951], 6: 364 – 365.)”

15. Great are the Words of Isaiah, pg. 71; “Isaiah 11:10; The interpretation of this passage has been given by Joseph Smith in D&C 113:1-4. The stem of Jesse is Christ. The book of Revelation also identifies Jesus as such (see Rev. 5:5; 22:16). The rod is “a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim” (D&C 113:4). That the servant is Joseph Smith himself seems evident.”

16. Journal of Discourses 7:289; “…no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ…”

17. Joseph Smith: Choice Seer, preface; “In assessing the marvelous impact of the Choice Seer’s work on this dispensation, we will turn first and foremost to the doctrinal teachings of Joseph Smith as set forth in his sermons, letters, revelations, translations, and narrations. In addition, we will rely occasionally on the clarifications and expansions of those who knew Brother Joseph firsthand and studied at his feet, as well as those apostolic and prophetic successors to whom is given the divine mandate to build on the doctrinal foundation he laid.”

18. Handbook of the Restoration: A Discussion of Gospel Themes, pg. 25-35; “Joseph Smith… That he was an extraordinary man is conceded by friend and foe…a restorer of the pure and uncorrupted gospel of Jesus Christ. At no time did he declare that he brought a new message of salvation to the world; his mission was to restore and declare, to expound and enlarge the old truth… the commentaries by the apostles, which constitute the latter part of the New Testament, are fragmentary and incomplete. Joseph, the Prophet, gave to the world in this day a large and rich interpretation of the gospel of Jesus Christ…The achievements of Joseph Smith are much greater than those of ordinary men; they appear to transcend usual human powers, and cannot be explained in terms of common experience… Space does not permit us to illustrate the divine power of Joseph Smith by the many principles of truth that he taught.”

19. Joseph Smith’s Idea of the Gospel, pg. 8; “Joseph Smith’s view of the gospel is based upon the assumption that, before the fall, Adam resided in the presence of God and, consequently, was enveloped in the life-giving, quickening powers that constitute God’s glory or presence. In this condition, his whole being was filled with intelligence and life, and corruption in every form was foreign to his nature. In the words of the Prophet, “All corruption is devoured by the fire.”

20. Divine Authority or the Question, Was Joseph Smith sent of God?, pg. 4; “How came Mr.Smith, if a deceiver, to think of all this? Did Martin Luther, Wesley, Whitfield, Swedenborg, or Irving think of this? Whence his superior intellect, his depth of understanding, his extensive foresight, that he should so far surpass all former impostors for 1700 years? John testifies that when the everlasting gospel is restored to the earth it shall be by an angel. Mr.Smith testifies that it was restored by an angel, and in no other way. This is another presumptive evidence that he was sent of God.”

21. LDS Hymn #27; Praise to the man, verses. 1, 2, 4;

“Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!

Jesus annointed [sic] that Prophet and Seer.

Blessed to open the last dispensation,

Kings shall extol him and nations revere.

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!

Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.

Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;

Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.

Ever and ever the keys he will hold.

Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,

Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.”

22. Encyclopedia of Mormonism, pg. 546; “Though Latter-day Saints extensively use the scriptures to learn about God, their fundamental knowledge concerning him is based upon the Prophet Joseph Smith’s first vision, the Prophet’s subsequent revelatory experiences, and individual personal revelation.”

23. Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 7; “In thirty nations are men and women who look upon him as a greater leader than Moses and a greater prophet than Isaiah; his disciples now number close to a million [the present figure is over 3.5 million]; and already a granite shaft pierces the sky over the place where he was born, and another is in course of erection over the place where he is credited with having received the inspiration for his Book. (John Henry Evans, op. cit., introduction.)”

24. Answers: Straightforward Answers to Tough Gospel Questions, pg. 48; “… Joseph Smith was told that he was a descendant of Abraham…He was also told that he was a lawful heir, “according to the flesh,” to the priesthood…Prophecy further identified him as a direct lineal descendant of Joseph of Egypt… More particularly, he is represented as being a descendant of Ephraim and as having some of the blood of Jesse… title page to the Book of Mormon, which was written by Moroni, says that it will come forth by the hand of a Gentile. Reference here is to his citizenship in a Gentile nation… Thus Joseph Smith was a literal descendant of the house of Israel while at the same time being a citizen of a Gentile nation.”

So we’ll ask the question again. Doesn’t this sound like worship? We’ve listed more than enough examples where various leaders have claimed Smith is greater than Moses or Isaiah, he is related to Jesus, has done more than any other man on earth except Jesus, people studied at his feet and don’t forget, he saved the world! The most startling evidence is taken from their hymn book, Praise to the Man. To the average member of the Church it may not seem as if you’re worshipping Joseph and I can remember thinking and feeling the same way. I encourage the members to take another look after reading this and then ask yourself; “who am I worshipping”?

We see in Hebrews 9:24-28; 10:1-4; “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation….For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”

It is impossible for man to please God without the blood of Jesus Christ. This doesn’t mean that we work for salvation because Jesus died for us! It means that Jesus did all the work alone! If you love Jesus like you say you do, please, take one day in the next week and think about everything He did for you! Think about the time He spent on the cross, read the gospels, see what He said, where He walked, what did He do? These are the things we set our minds upon as members of the body of Christ. We think about what Jesus did, the various titles that are given to Him and why, people’s reaction to Him, the patience that He portrayed for people and His unselfish love. As a Mormon can you name Jesus’ favorite place to pray?

Why would you as a Christian place a mere human between yourself and Jesus? This is exactly what the LDS Church has done with Joseph Smith! Many times members of the Church don’t even use Joseph Smith’s last name. Most refer to him as just “Joseph” and everyone knows who is being spoken of; yet when was the last time you heard a Mormon use the name of just “Jesus”? If a Christian were to use just the name of Joseph when speaking about “religious” topics they would think of Joseph from the Bible, not Joseph Smith!

Oh, He so wants for you to know Him! For just one day think upon only Jesus, if you’re really a Christian this shouldn’t be a problem. See if you can name 24 facts about Jesus in regards to His birth, how He fulfilled an Old Testament prophecy, what if anything did He say about His own death, what significant things took place when He died, a miracle He performed and why, etc. Use just the Bible for your investigation and find out first hand if it really does contradict itself.

If you’re a Mormon know that we’re praying for you. If you’re a Christian who has a friend or family member who is LDS, let us know how we can pray for you and him/her! We’re not here to bash the LDS people or to bring shame upon them publicly; we are here to contend for the faith as it says in Jude 3 and to share the truth about God’s Son, Christ Jesus!

With Love in Christ;

Michelle Grim

1 Cor. 1:18


TOPICS: History; Other non-Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: inman; josephsmith; lds; mormon; mormonism; mormons; smithmas; worship
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Explain more about this “counterfeit elohim” you mentioned. I don’t know that much about Mormonism but the more you say the more ludicrous it sounds. Do Mormons really, really believe this stuff?

A lot of Mormons are torn and ambivalent over their exact beliefs about God, the Trinity, the Godhead, the worship of Jesus, men becoming gods, etc. What they simply wind up doing is acquiescing to whatever their current leaders say.

Hence, Mormons are really all over the board (surprisingly) on such basic matters as "how many gods do you worship?" I've encountered Mormons on FR who insist they worship one God, and yet when you ask them if they worship Jesus -- as Mormon 7:7 and several other passages in the Book of Mormon say (2 Nephi 25:29; 4 Nephi 4:37; 3 Nephi 11:17; 3 Nephi 17:10), they suddenly say "yes" or stop conversing with you.

Why?

Because they count Jesus as a second, separate god than elohim. But when they do that, and they say they worship both, then they worship two gods. And Mormon 7:7 says to worship the Holy Spirit. That makes for a three-god worship for Mormons.

Mormons suddenly become very basic math-challenged. For the Christian, no such conflict exists:

1 (the Father)
x 1 (the Son)
x 1 (the Spirit)
= 1...
our Tri-unified God is even exemplified in basic multiplication!

For the Mormon who accepts current teachings found even now on the BYU Web site, it's endless "addition" of adding to the number of gods in the universe:

The great and anticipated climax of the plan is to return to God and become one with Him. Dr. Henry Eyring, an eminent scientist, said: “One other idea that was revolutionary and is still revolutionary is to take away the idea of the limitation that one supposes exists for man. . . . He replaced it with the idea . . . that there is no limit to how high man might go, man the son of God, might go, if he lived the gospel . . . that through the eternities he could go beyond any limit. That great idea is something that can’t help catching hold of our imaginations.”

Source: “Praise To The Man”: A Review Of The Annual Joseph Smith Memorial Sermons

{For those who want to discuss this quote, this excerpt along with the article it was pulled from was posted as a FREEPER thread last night: “Praise To The Man”: A Review Of The Annual Joseph Smith Memorial Sermons [Mormon Merry Smithmas]}

Next post...I'll show how once upon a time in Mormonism, it was all such a simpler time in applying addition and multiplication to Mormon theology/anthropology!

61 posted on 12/06/2011 6:14:19 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Jack Hydrazine; Saundra Duffy
Explain more about this “counterfeit elohim” you mentioned. I don’t know that much about Mormonism but the more you say the more ludicrous it sounds. Do Mormons really, really believe this stuff? How many are like Saundra that seem either ignorant of the standard teachings within Mormonism or are being deceptively ignorant about the various aspects you mention?

Jack, there's "enough" single-God verse mentions in both the Book of Mormon and Lds Doctrine & Covenants to lull Mormons into a slumber that, they, too, are single-God Christians.

The problem is that Joseph Smith evolved into "multiple-god" Mormonism in the 1840s...and in Mormonism, the latter "revelations" always trump the former ones.

Still, if you go back to Mormonism's origins, what's of interest is that between 1830 and almost mid-way through 1833, Joseph Smith largely stuck with trinitarian beliefs that he inserted into the...
...1830 Book of Mormon,
...1833 Book of Commandments
...and 1835 Doctrine & Covenants
-- although he was also a "modalist" at the time (the belief that the same divine personality reveals himself in 3 venues or "modes").

(I strongly encourage Lds "lurkers" to go back & study their own 1830-1833 "roots" as far as who God is):
Doctrine & Covenants:
As well as those who should come after, who should believe in the gifts and callings of God by the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and Son; which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God. (D&C 20:27-28, 1830)
And the Father and I are one. I am in the Father and the Father in me... (D&C 50:43...1831...Smith copied this from John 10; John 17)
And that I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one (D&C 93:3, 1833)
...even one in me [Jesus] as I am one in the Father, as the Father is one in me, that we may be one (D&C 35:2, 1831)

Book of Commandments, 1833 (the original D&C):
Lectures of Faith, Lecture 5, v. 2: And he [Jesus] being the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father--possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power [singular] over all things: by whom all things were created and made; and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power and fullness: Filling all in all--the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory and power, or, in other words, the Spirit, glory and power of the Father--posessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father--a Mediator for man--being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father... [Note: This was removed from the 1835 D&C...Why?]

Book of Mormon:
Intro: Testimony of Three Witnesses: And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which IS [not ARE] one God.
And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which IS [not ARE] one God. (2 Nephi 31:21)
...the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one. (3 Nephi 11:27,36)
...every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which IS [not ARE] one eternal God... (Alma 11:44)
...given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.
(Mormon 7:7: Please note: the original 1830 Book of Mormon had the word "is" prior to one God...BoM editors then changed it to "are"...a "shaking-the-head" kind of thought given that they left other "testimony" untouched -- such as the 3 witnesses -- along with 2 Nephi 31:21 and Alma 11:44)
...there is a true and living God...Is there more than one God? And he answered, No (Alma 11:27-29)
...Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit...and all this, that this man might know that he was God... (Ether 3:17-18)

62 posted on 12/06/2011 6:18:48 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: svcw
Photobucket
63 posted on 12/06/2011 6:52:30 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut

X


64 posted on 12/06/2011 6:56:13 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
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To: reaganaut

Honestly revolting. I wish you hadn’t posted it. I feel more weight to witness because of it.


65 posted on 12/06/2011 6:59:11 PM PST by pennyfarmer (Even a RINO will chew its foot off when caught in a trap.)
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To: Colofornian

66 posted on 12/06/2011 7:06:13 PM PST by Dagnabitt
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Here are a few quotes from ol' Joey Smith for you to consider:

In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)

Smith's worldview of time as it pertains to the gods: Smith believed in a "beginning" that was operative before the Mormon plan to the create this world. The question becomes, who is the head of the Gods as pertains to this ‘council of gods?

In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through--Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)

I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)

Whatever is taken by Smith as the ’beginning’, the Alpha point, Smith says god was a man. That he "was once as we are now." We already know from the above quote that the godhead came even after the Mormon god was appointed. The Mormon god was no godhead in the beginning Smith portrays, yet John’s Gospel starts with the Word, Jesus, was with God and was God in the beginning.

“I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the Gods of heaven. '...Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them.' If Abraham reasoned thus--If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly. Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373)

What's being said here? … The teaching of infinite regression of gods! Smith is claiming that Jesus had a grandpa and a great-grandpa, etc.!

Those are the blasphemies Joseph Smith taught for Mormonism. To revere Smith is to accept those blasphemies because he authored them. To accept those blasphemies is to serve the spirit of antiChrist. So, whom did Joseph Smith work for? Well, lies and heresies and blasphemies arise not from The Holy Spirit, they arise from the father of lies, a murderer fromt he start.

67 posted on 12/06/2011 7:40:04 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Dagnabitt

(It looks like it’s past your beddy-bye time...Ni-Ni...don’t let the bed bugs bite)


68 posted on 12/06/2011 7:41:23 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian

Good night Fred Phelps.


69 posted on 12/06/2011 7:55:29 PM PST by Dagnabitt
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Short answer? They are all appear so nice and good because they are trying to make the LDS church look good to non members. One thing I heard CONSTANTLY when I was Mormon was “never do anything that would make ‘the church’ look bad”.

Some are really decent folks (who are decent because they believe they are earning godhood) and some (IME many) just appear that way to outsiders when reality in their private lives are very different. Either way, Mormons are spiritually deceived and lost and part of that is believing the silly and false things that they do.


70 posted on 12/06/2011 8:02:22 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Elsie

chuckle


71 posted on 12/06/2011 8:03:32 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Saundra Duffy

We aren’t missing anything dear, except the lies the leadership tells the LDS members. And don’t give me that carp, since I remember all too well that the surface was Christmas, but the focus was the joy of the ‘restoration’ given by JOSEPH SMITH.

Sandy, come to the REAL Jesus, not the fake ‘older brother’ polygamist your church tells you not to pray to. It’s much better over on our side.


72 posted on 12/06/2011 8:07:01 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Jack Hydrazine

Wrong again Sandy. You may not see it as worship but the reverence that the LDS give Joey and the way they talk about him IS worship. Your prophets have claimed that you will need Smith’s permission to enter the CK (the ‘real’ Heaven). They sing songs of praise like “praise to the Man”. No Christian would EVER sing a song like that. I can keep going if you want.

http://blog.mrm.org/2006/01/worship-of-joseph-smith/

http://www.mrm.org/praise-to-the-man

Here are some quotes from your leaders, Sandy. Men you sustain as ‘prophets’...

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.” (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)

“If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]” Apostle George Q. Cannon, as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142

“Whosoever... does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist...,” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 176

[There is] “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God” Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

“No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—”Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!” But it is true.” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91

“He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312

“It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,” Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

“I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, “Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;” if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again.” Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

“You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a God, and also upon Brigham Young, our Governor” Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, p. 88

“It is to be feared that in course of a century, some gifted man like Paul, some splendid orator, who will be able by his eloquence to attract crowds of the thousands who are ever ready to hear, and be carried away by, the sounding brass and tinkling cymbal of sparkling oratory, may command a hearing, may succeed in breathing a new life into this modern Mahometanism, and make the name of the martyred Joseph ring as loud, and stir the souls of men as much, as the mighty name of Christ itself. Sharon, Palmyra, Manchester, Kirtland, Far West, Adam-ondi-Ahman, Ramus. Nauvoo, and the Carthage Jail, may become holy and venerable names, places of classic interest, in another age; like Jerusalem, the Garden of Gethsemane, the Mount of Olives, and Mount Calvary to the Christian, and Mecca and Medina to the Turk.” Brigham Young, History of the Church, Vol. 7, p.40-41

How about some sites that tell the TRUTH about Mormonism...

www.utlm.org
www.mormonoutreach.org


73 posted on 12/06/2011 8:17:17 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Jack Hydrazine

Failure to fully disclose your beliefs Sandy. You are dissembling in order to sound more ‘Christian’.

As a temple Mormon you MUST believe some VERY corny things. Want me to post the endowment ceremony?


74 posted on 12/06/2011 8:18:43 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Ripliancum

And I am sad Sandy that you are apparently can not or unwilling to see the truth about mormonISM. Notice please that these links are lds owned.

http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/24762/Joseph-Smiths-birthday-commemorated.html
PULL QUOTE: we celebrate not only the birth of the Savior but also the birthday of our Prophet Joseph Smith.
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/56330/Church-History-Museum-celebrates-Joseph-Smiths-birthday.html
PULL QUOTE: The festivities began on Joseph’s birthday, Dec. 23, and will run until Jan. 3.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705379702/Remember-the-Prophet-Joseph-Smiths-birthday.html
PULL QUOTE: As the Doctrine and Covenants affirms, “Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.”
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/600137230/Vermont-group-observing-Joseph-Smiths-birthday.html
OBSERVATION: not even a mention of Jesus Christ


75 posted on 12/06/2011 8:18:55 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Jack Hydrazine

Really? This is from an official lds site.
PULL QUOTE: The festivities began on Joseph’s birthday, Dec. 23, and will run until Jan. 3.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705379702/Remember-the-Prophet-Joseph-Smiths-birthday.html
PULL QUOTE: As the Doctrine and Covenants affirms, “Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.”


76 posted on 12/06/2011 8:21:54 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Jack Hydrazine; Elsie; Colofornian; Godzilla; MHGinTN

Just found this and it horrified me. So Sandy do you bless the name of Joseph Smith?

Song from BYU TV concert Joseph Smith: Blessed Be His Name.

Those Christians here would know that “Blessed be His Name” is the title of a CHRISTIAN praise and worship song (ie to Christ).

BYUtv - Joseph Smith: Blessed Be His Name: Joseph Smith ...
Joseph Smith: Blessed Be His Name Joseph Smith: Blessed Be His Name. 583 Views

byutv.byu.edu/watch/84dc3994-4e9f-4f80-a41d-cce773f625d4


77 posted on 12/06/2011 8:23:29 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Saundra Duffy; reaganaut

Yes, Sandy that is what lds teaches.
Go to the family search and Jesus is listed in your official ancestry guilds as having more than one wife.
Remember that lds teaches the water to wine miracle was at Jesus’ wedding according to lds teachings.


78 posted on 12/06/2011 8:24:25 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: reaganaut; Saundra Duffy

This is vile. Joseph Smith: Blessed Be His Name: Joseph Smith http://byutv.byu.edu/watch/84dc3994-4e9f-4f80-a41d-cce773f625d4
Sandy this song is vile.
Don’t ever say lds do not worship Smith.


79 posted on 12/06/2011 8:31:08 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Saundra Duffy
I feel sorry for the anti Mormons; they are missing out on all the Goodness.

Sandy; if you are not Temple Wothry®, then YOU are missing out of the goodies!

80 posted on 12/06/2011 8:32:18 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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