Posted on 11/26/2011 3:33:54 PM PST by Iggles Phan
My problem with the 'Rapture' (pre-millenial; pre-tribulation) teaching is that it forces its adherents to actually REVERSE the Person of Jesus Christ to the Devil.
That's correct.
In the 'Rapture' (or Dispensational) scheme the believer is asked to take the Person of Daniel's 70th Week (Who is Jesus Christ at the Cross) described in Chapter 9, verse 27a:
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, ..."
... and reverse this 'he' to mean a 'future Antichrist'.
Are you confused?
Is this Jesus Christ or Antichrist?
1. The Historic View.
This view is typified by the 1599 Geneva Bible notes. These are the notes of John Calvin, Miles Coverdale, and John Knox to name a few.
1599 Geneva Bible Notes on Daniel 9:27a:
"By the preaching of the gospel he confirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles. Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection."
It's pretty clear that the Reformers believed that Christ was the Person of Daniel's Great 70th Week.
2. The Modernist View (Dispensational).
In contrast however, compare this historic view to the Dispensational view typified in the Ryrie Study Notes (1978). Look who the modernists assign to this very same Person in Daniel 9:27a:
"The prince of verse 26, the Antichrist previously introduced in 7:8, 24-26, who will make a pact with many (of the Jewish people) at the beginning of the tribulation period. But in the middle of the week (i.e., 3 1/2 years later) Antichrist will break his covenant and desecrate the Temple by demanding worship of himself in it."
The difference couldn't be farther apart.
Historic Christianity says that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week AT THE CROSS, but Rapture Christianity (Dispensationalism) says that the Devil fulfills it in a 're-built' temple.
Therefore, Dispensationalism is no less than a frontal assault on the Cross of Christ. It reverses Jesus Christ to the Devil. It is malicious and a pernicious doctrine.
Remember, this Dispensational view was NEVER known until 1830. That's why it is a Modernist view. It was invented by JN Darby and popularized by CI Scofield, two con-men to Christianity.
In the 20th century, carpetbaggers such as Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack (and Rexella) Van Impe, John Hagee and others have made fame and fortune off of this con game. They have marketed this 'Rapture' theology like a cheap box of laundry detergent on TV and radio, and with videos and books.
My hope and prayer is that the Church starts to wake up out of its slumber and starts challenging its pastors, ministries, and teachers. The Cross of Christ is at stake here!
For the Glory of Christ Jesus. Amen.
I believe the onus is on YOU to prove that Christ comes secretly 7 years before He comes with a shout where all eyes will see HIM. The Bible does NOT support a secret rapture.
You have produced no Scripture on this thread to support your assertions. If you believe that you have, give the number of the post where you prove, Scripturally, that there will be no catching up of those in Christ to meet Him in the air.
Produce the Scripture and if you can't, at least stop digging a hole for yourself.
My proof is the SCRIPTURE. Yours is human interpretation to try to cram a square peg in a round hole that because we’re called up to the clouds to meet Him that somehow that all happens 7 yrs before the end of time.
You are twisting scripture to meet some preconceived notion that Christ removes us before the tribulation and no where in the Bible is that supported.
Give the the specific Scripture that you think supports your denial of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
“You speak in weird ways - not plain English - “REVERSED Jesus at the Cross to a future-to-us Devil”.
What are you trying to say?”
Answer:
I am saying precisely what I mean. Again, clearly;
For 2,000 years now, the suffering Church knew the Person of Daniel’s Great 70th Week to be none other than our Lord and Saviour - Jesus Christ. No one disputed that.
Jesus knew it, the Apostles knew it, the Early Chruch knew it, and all of the great Reformers knew it.
Then, along comes Irving, Darby, Scofield, et al, some 18 centuries AFTER the Cross of Christ, and they declare that all of these people were wrong. That according to their ‘wisdom’, the subject person of Daniel’s Great 70th Week is now to be the Devil.
That my dear friend is a huge REVERSAL. This reversal turns the Gospel on its head. It imputes violence into God’s Word from the cunning mind of man.
So, I do not mince words here like many flim-flam theologians like to do these days. I will tell it straight.
I suspect that this post is the first time that many Dispensationalists have ever heard (and hence now understand) this malicious reversal. Certainly, Dispensational teachers will never teach it to them and will do everything they can to hide this fact.
Now, the Christian thing to do is to face Truth. Jesus said that He is the Truth. He also said that the Truth shall make you free.
It is your decision to defend Jesus Christ at the Cross, or to treat Him with disregard and substitute the Antichrist where He rightfully belongs.
In all of Christ’s mercy, I pray that you will repent of your Dispensational sin.
AGAIN
God makes a covenant with man hundreds of times throughout the Bible.
Nowhere, NEVER, does Satan make a covenant with man.
So the question simply here is:
Why do you FORCE a Satanic covenant with man in your interpretation of Daniel’s 70th Week?
This interpretation is contrary to the ENTIRE Scriptural Body of Work. It imputes violence to the Cross of Christ. It is aberrant and sloppy theology.
Why would God do something here in the 70th Week that He never permits anywhere else in the Bible?
It is clear that Dispensationalists have contrived this doctrine to ‘make it work’. However, that won’t cut it in the Kingdom of God.
In all mercy, I pray that you will repent of your Dispensational sin.
“Additionally, what exactly are you saying regarding the AntiChrist - when will his time be? Are you saying he WON’T make a deceitful covenant with the Jews who are wrongly looking for The Messiah? You DO realize that their deception has much to do with their blindness in thinking atonement with sacrifices must still be made - thus the nature of the discussion regarding the AoD standing in the Temple?”
Answer:
Most Dispensationalists go to the Book of Revelation to constrive their ‘seven year deal’ with ‘the Antichrist’. But, there are two peculiar things about this: a) Revelation does not mention ‘the Antichrist’, and b) there is no ‘seven year deal’ mentioned anywhere in Revelation.
In fact, if the Truth be known, there is no seven year ‘anything’ mentioned in Revelation. (Check it out for yourself - don’t listen to false teachers.)
So, all of this Dispensationalism is merely speculative thinking. It is created by the cunning mind of man.
- Where does the Bible mention antichrist?
Antichrist is ONLY used four times in the Bible. It is used in the letters of I and II John.
- What do these verses actually say?
I John 2
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
I John 4
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
II John 1
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Notice a few obvious things here:
a) That antichrist was present back then, in the 1st century, when John instructed his followers (proof text: I John 2: 18). Therefore, Dispensationalists argue counter to the Bible that thier ‘antichrist’ can be ‘only future’ (to us).
b) That antichrist is NOT a flesh and blood person, but rather a spirit. A spirit that inhabits ALL who deny Christ. The spirit is not singular as in ‘the’ antichrist, but rather plural in MANY who do not believe. Proof text: I John 4: 3.
So, when Dispensationalists weave their scheme through Revelation, know that this interpretation is completely contrived out of whole cloth. It is not a Scriptural reading of God’s Word.
In all mercy, I pray that you will repent of your Dispensational sin.
So far, your false doctrines have crashed and burned through the truth of the word of the living God.
Stop trying to use the word "dispensationalism" to disguise your denial of Scripture and have the courage to come out and say that you don't like the Bible the way God wrote it. The simple fact is, the truth of Scripture demolishes your beliefs and you have no defense against that fact.
Find the Scripture that contradicts the clear passages which state that there will be a man who makes a seven-year "peace" covenant with Israel then three and a half years into that seven-year covenant stands in the rebuilt temple and states that he is "god".
Find the Scripture to support your assertions or lose what tiny bit credibility you may somehow possess.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Does this sound like a secret visit by Christ to you? You are the one that needs to prove this we are called up to Christ 7 yrs before the end.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
The word ‘meet’ in 17 in the greek has the same meaning as going out to meet an official and bringing him back. That is what happens. We meet Christ in the clouds and bring Him back and He destroys the earth and all that is in it.
It is incumbent upon you and others that twist scripture to fit a preconceived notion, to PROVE that scripture says what you want it to say. And it does not.
“Thanks but preterism in any form is such a silly notion it is ridiculous to even discuss it.”
Answer:
This is not a preterite argument. It is a Scriptural argument. It is a view that has been the mainstream view held for 2,000 years. It is a view that was held by Jesus, the Apostles, the Early Church, and ALL of the great Reformers.
The Darby view is a johnny-come-lately. It arrived 18 centuries AFTER the Cross.
And it attacked the Cross with its 70th Week ‘Antichrist’.
I pray, dear friend, that you will feel led to repent of your Dispensational sin.
Your problem and rage is with God, not me. He is the one Who told us that this even will happen in "the twinkling of an eye". Take your disagreement with His word up with Him.
As for the rest of your post which, again, gives NO Scripture to support either your claims or your denials of Scripture and does not "prove" that what God has told is is wrong, see the links in post 111.
I have already given the Scriptural proof for a pre-Trib rapture. You have not been able to produce one verse to validate what you believe.
LOL!!!
I guess it's fortunate that we're living in the post-1827 era then, isn't it?
Think of the millions who were cast into hell before that date, without the saving grace of a dispensationalist study bible.
So 1 Thessalonians 4 was written in the 1800s?
“I find it odd that a new signer upper thinks he can start posting articles...”
What a nose-in-the-air, dumb@$$ comment...where are the rules that say a newbie can’t post?
I see on your profile page that one of your ‘Concerns’ is ‘Free Speech’...seems you are against ‘Free Speech’.
And btw, who made you a ‘Mod’?
Evidently you are clearer and more accurate on that issue
than Paul was about himself.
Typical REPLACEMENTARIAN ‘loftiness of conviction.’
‘KNOWING’ the Bible better than those who penned it.
LOL.
What a farce.
“Historic Christianity says that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week AT THE CROSS, but Rapture Christianity (Dispensationalism) says that the Devil fulfills it in a ‘re-built’ temple.”
I believe you are correct. The 69th week ended and the 70th week began when Jesus was baptised in Jordan by John. This 70th week was cut short (3 1/2 years) with His death on the cross. From that point forward there is no longer need for any further sacrifice.
The Rapture theology is an easy out for lazy ‘Christians’ who do not want to consider facing any kind of ‘tribulation’. I believe that LeHay/Jenkins and many others will have to answer in a coming day for their misleading of many.
NONSENSE.
MANGLING SCRIPTURE IS ALWAYS NONSENSE.
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