Call No Man Father?

http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/father.html ^

[Cvengr]

God the Holy Spirit brings us into the Church by baptizing us. It isn’t the little man who disobeys God, seeking to be called ‘father’ who brings us into the Body of Christ.

[knarf]

Why can't it be simply, "Call no man Father" in the same manner as some of us say, "Shall not be infringed" ?

What good is language if it doesn't speak simply to the simple?

[rzman21]

Where do we go from here?

We cannot interpret Matthew 23:9 as prohibiting reference to dads or priests as “fathers” without contradicting other scriptural passages in which the word “father” is used. Such an interpretation would render the commandment “honor your father” meaningless and would diminish the authority of the apostles and their successors. Admittedly, it is easier for a Protestant to accept the title “father” for those who beget children biologically. To use the title for others would imply the recognition of Jesus’ intention to establish a ministerial priesthood through the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

However, our lives of faith are conceived by the acts of those who sow the seeds of faith. The apostles and their successors were commissioned by Christ Himself. They bear His Word in our lives and are ministers of His grace through the sacraments of the Church, beginning with our spiritual rebirth in Baptism. By sharing in the high priesthood of Christ, bishops and priests share in the attributes of the Father. As there is no father but the one Father in heaven, and no teacher or master but Christ, we properly understand that these men, having been commissioned by Christ to act in His person, also represent the Father, whom the Son reveals (cf. Jn. 1:14-18). Insofar as they uniquely participate in the spiritual begetting of God’s children, bishops and priests are our fathers. For they share in the mission of Christ who reveals the eternal Father. St. Ignatius of Antioch, who knew the apostles, expressed this well when he wrote: “Let everyone revere . . . the bishop as the image of the Father” (as quoted in Catechism, no. 1554).

When addressing this issue with those who do not agree, we do well to point out the various opposing Scriptures and ask them to explain the meanings. Remind them that God cannot contradict Himself, so the Scriptures, which are His Word, cannot be contradictory. After hearing their answers, charitably question any contradictions. Most importantly, find common ground through which you can further an understanding of fatherhood. This common ground will probably be at the level of biological fatherhood. For on this level, interpreting Matthew 23:9 in an exclusively literal sense would undermine the Fourth Commandment. Most will recognize that in no way does this title take away from the ultimate power and authority God has over human life: “Thou didst knit me together in my mother’s womb” (Ps. 139:13). Rather, we recognize that all fatherhood comes from God, as St. Paul teaches in Ephesians 3:14-15: “For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named. . . .”

In this context, we can explain the fatherhood of a priest. Rather than bearing the authority of man and providing an example of pride as the scribes and Pharisees, a priest bears the authority of God in the New Covenant sealed in the blood of Christ. With such a commission, the priest is obligated to live in service to others.

Thus, whether we are speaking of biological fathers or spiritual fathers, we understand men in both circumstances to be participating in the one fatherhood of God. This is a gift from God, and must be lived in a godly manner. Only in this way can they raise their children to be children of light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw4bwKqp_aE

[rzman21]

Understanding the scriptures requires understanding the cultural, historical, and linguistic background of the text.

It’s not simply a matter of looking for plain English-language meanings.

[volunbeer]

In sum, priests are instrumental in bringing us into his grace, giving us strength through the Holy Spirit, making possible for us that we can receive the marvelous gift of Jesus Body and Blood which forgives sins, are God’s instruments in bringing us back to God when we disfellowship ourselves from God with mortal sins, or cleanse us when we have only venial sin, and give grace on our deathbed. From the beginning of our spiritual life, to the end of our spiritual life, it is priests who nourish Catholics with the Sacraments, and are instrumental in bringing us the means of salvation, in the beginning, middle, and the end of our lives. Priests are God’s instruments for our benefit, and they surely deserve the title ‘Father’.

_____________________________________

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

____________________________________

Sorry FRiend, but I don’t need a mortal man to accept Jesus, walk with Jesus, and live with Jesus. If I seek to serve him the Holy Spirit, not a mortal man, will move me when I sin and correct my path. I don’t need any mortal man to obtain the gift and spirit of Jesus Christ. “Give grace on my deathbed?” Jesus showers all who accept and love him with His grace. It is the greatest gift of Jesus, not a priest. Does a person who dies without a Priest present have less of the Grace of Christ than a person with a Priest?

Writings like this concern me. No earthly institution, church, denomination, or mortal man stands between me and God. Only one thing stands between us and God and it’s not a Priest (never mentioned in this context) -

“”Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.””

Belief in Jesus Christ is the key.... not a denomination or a Priest.

[BipolarBob]

What good is language if it doesn't speak simply to the simple?

For some reason Catholics make religion so much harder than it has to be. For example this big long winded whatever you want to call it. The Bible is simple. Man makes it harder. Calling priests "Father", Marian worship, statuary (idols?) that gives me the creeps, forbidding priests to marry, following tradition rather that the Bible . . . the list goes on and on and on. But you get the idea. Read the Bible. Imitate Christ. Follow the Ten Commandments. and pray. and pray some more.

[count-your-change]

Your argument fails on two counts:
One, No one in the primitive Christian took the title of Father. No Father Paul, No Father Timothy, no Father John.

Two, No priesthood existed in that Christian congregation. The acting as priest/king was to be in heaven.

[buccaneer81]

Marian worship, statuary (idols?)

The usual worn out lies.

Why not just call us Papists and get it over with?

[rzman21]

Maybe in your 16th century revisionist Christianity and manmade dogma of Sola Scriptura.

The Christian priesthood is a participation in the one priesthood of our Lord Jesus Christ that he bestowed on the apostles, who passed it on to their successors.

[BipolarBob]

Why not just call us Papists and get it over with?

You are correct. How thoughtless of me.

[BipolarBob]

"who passed it on to their successors."

Now who's getting revisionist?

[rzman21]

The go-it alone Christianity of contemporary evangelicalism is a novelty. Besides no Catholic worships his priests, bishops, or even his patriarch or Pope.

Do you reject Hebrews 13:17: Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit.

Πείθεσθε τοῖς ἡγουμένοις ὑμῶν καὶ ὑπείκετε, αὐτοὶ γὰρ ἀγρυπνοῦσιν ὑπὲρ τῶν ψυχῶν ὑμῶν ὡς λόγον ἀποδώσοντες, ἵνα μετὰ χαρᾶς τοῦτο ποιῶσιν καὶ μὴ στενάζοντες, ἀλυσιτελὲς γὰρ ὑμῖν τοῦτο.

Let's compare the Greek in 1 Timothy 3 with the Greek in St. Ignatius of Antioch's Epistle to the Church of Smyrna and the Didache.

Scholarship suggests 1 Timothy was written about 62 A.D., while St. Ignatius's epistle was written about 40 years later.

In Timothy 3:1 we find the Greek word ἐπισκοπῆς (episcopos), which literally means overseer or bishop in English. The same is true in 3:2 where we find the form ἐπίσκοπον. It appears again in Titus 1:7. http://biblos.com/titus/1-7.htm

Anti-episcopal Protestants try dismissing the episcopacy as an innovation by fudging the words.

Looking at extra-scriptural references is important because they show how this term was in common usage during this time period.

In the Didache, which was written in the late 1st century, which is the earliest extra-scriptural reference to how early Christians believed and worshiped we find the following.

Appoint, therefore, for yourselves, bishops and deacons worthy of the Lord, men meek, and not lovers of money, and truthful and proved; for they also render to you the service of prophets and teachers. Therefore do not despise them, for they are your honored ones, together with the prophets and teachers. And reprove one another, not in anger, but in peace, as you have it in the Gospel. But to anyone that acts amiss against another, let no one speak, nor let him hear anything from you until he repents. But your prayers and alms and all your deeds so do, as you have it in the Gospel of our Lord.

The Greek text again uses the same word as the Bible. 1 ceirotonhsate oun eautoiv episkopouv kai diakonouv axiouv tou kuriou, andrav praeiv kai afilargurouv kai alhqeiv kai dedokimasmenouv, umin gar leitourgousi kai autoi thn leitourgian twn profhtwn kai didaskalwn.

In the Epistle to the Smyrneans, episkopos reappears in the following context.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

1. Πάντες τῷ ἐπισκόπῳ ἀκολουθεῖτε, ὡς Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς τῷ πατρί, καὶ τῷ πρεσβυτερἰῳ ὡς τοῖς ἀποστόλοις. τοὺς δὲ διακόνους ἐντρέπεσθε ὡς θεοῦ ἐντολήν. μηδεὶς χωρὶς τοῦ ἐπισκόπου τι πρασσέτω τῶν ἀνηκόντων εἰς τὴν ἐκκλησίαν. ἐκείνη βεβαία εὐχαριστία ἡγείσθω, ἡ ὑπὸ ἐπίσοπον οὖσα ἢ ᾧ ἂν αὐτὸς ἐπιτρέψῃ. 2. ὅπου ἂν φανῇ ὁ ἐπίσκοπος, ἐκεῖ τὸ πλῆθος ἤτω, ὥσπερ ὅπου ἂν ῇ Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, ἐκεῖ ἡ καθολικὴ ἐκκλησία(Catholic Church). οὐκ ἐξόν ἐστιν χωρὶς τοῦ ἐπισκόπου οὔτε βαπτίζειν οὔτε ἀγάπην ποιεῖν· ἀλλ’ ὃ ἂν ἐκεῖνος δοκιμάσῃ, τοῦτο καὶ τῷ θεῷ εὐάρεστον, ἵνα ἀσφαλὲς ᾖ καὶ βέβαιον πᾶν ὃ πράσσετε. http://www.ccel.org/l/lake/fathers/ignatius-smyrnaeans.htm

Episkopos is also found in the 1 Epistle of St. Clement to the Corinthians, which was written around 95 A.D.

Clement is referenced directly by St. Paul in Philippians 4:3 Philippians Yes, and I ask you, my true companion, help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, whose names are in the book of life. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/info/1clement.html

1Clem 42:4 So preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed their firstfruits, when they had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons unto them that should believe.

1Clem 42:5 And this they did in no new fashion; for indeed it had been written concerning bishops and deacons from very ancient times; for thus saith the scripture in a certain place, I will appoint their bishops in righteousness and their deacons in faith.

Chapter 42. Οι αποστολοι ημιν ευηγγελισθησαν απο του κυριου Ιησου Χριστου, Ιησους ο Χριστος απο του θεου αξεπεμφθη. ο Χριστος ουν απο του θεου,και οι αποστολοι απο του Χριστου· εγενοντο ουν αμφοτερα ευτακτως εκ θεληματος θεου. παραγγελιας ουν λαβοντες και πληροφορηθεντες δια της αναστασεως του κυριου ημων Ιησου Χριστου και πιστωθεντες εν τω λογω του θεου μετα πληροφοριας πνευματος αγιου εξηλθον, ευαγγελιζομενοι την βασιλειαν του θεου μελλειν ερχεσθαι. κατα χωρας ουν και πολεις κηρυσσοντες καθιστανον τας απαρχας αυτων, δοκιμασαντες τω πνευματι, εις επισκοπους και διακονους των μελλοντων πιστευειν. και τουτο ου καινως, εκ γαρ δη πολλων χρονων εγεγραπτο περι επισκοπων και διακονων· ουτωσ γαρ που λεγει η γραφη· Καταστησω τους επισκοπους αυτων εν δικαιοσυνη και τους διακονους αυτωνεν πιστει.

1Clem 44:1 And our Apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife over the name of the bishop's office.

Και οι αποστολοι ημων εγνωσαν δια του κυριου ημων Ιησου Χριστου οτι ερις εσται επι του ονοματος της επισκοπης.

Then we find in the rest of the Chapter that St. Clement relates that: 1Clem 44:2 For this cause therefore, having received complete foreknowledge, they appointed the aforesaid persons, and afterwards they provided a continuance, that if these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed to their ministration.

A Catholic's first duty is to follow Christ and follow the direction of the bishops, presbyters, and deaons as long as they follow Christ in their words and in their deeds.

Stop setting up strawmen to insinuate that we worship the Pope, our patriarchs, or our bishops.

Sola Scriptura's end purpose is the dogmatization of anti-Catholicism. If scripture is plain, did these holy teachers misunderstand the scriptures? And why do you presume to understand the scriptures better than they? The me and my Bible Christianity that Evangelicals use to attack the Catholic Church would have been foreign to the Christians of the 1st and 2nd centuries. The episcopal polity of the Church distinguished the Christian communities that followed the apostles from the Gnostic pretenders.

[rzman21]

Educate yourself. Read the below.

[buccaneer81]

Imitate Christ. Follow the Ten Commandments.

And your Catholic-bashing follows that advice...how?

[volunbeer]

“” A Catholic’s first duty is to follow Christ and follow the direction of the bishops, presbyters, and deaons as long as they follow Christ in their words and in their deeds.””

I have no problem with this statement. For this reason, I believe people of all denominations who follow this are saved.

“”Stop setting up strawmen to insinuate that we worship the Pope, our patriarchs, or our bishops.””

I did not say this. I believe no mortal man or institution stands between me and God. I am saved by the grace of Jesus Christ.

“”The go-it alone Christianity of contemporary evangelicalism is a novelty. Besides no Catholic worships his priests, bishops, or even his patriarch or Pope.””

Do we have collective salvation or is my salvation based on my Christian walk? There is no novelty in following the teachings of Jesus Christ. It is very simple to me. The scriptures you shared are very interesting in context with your argument. However, for every one you gave there are many more that came from Christ himself that lay it out to me quite simply.... the attainment of my eternal reward comes from following the Lord my Savior.

I am focused on Jesus and wholeheartedly believe that my salvation will be found in him. May God bless you and yours FRiend.

[Natural Law]

Call no man father."

This is a controversy only in the minds of the ignorant or mischievous. The word used in Scripture was the Greek word "Pater" (πατήρ). According to Strong's Concordance (G3962) it has multiple meanings in Greek the majority of which do not impugn Catholics.

It is reasurring that anti-Catholics have to resort to fabricating difficulties out of whole cloth.

[BipolarBob]

Did Christ not correct wrong teachings and blast the false teachers calling Pharisees “serpents” (vipers) and sons of the devil? Did He drive out the moneychangers from within the temple? He minced no words.

[buccaneer81]

Let’s see, next, you’ll be ranting about The Whore of Babylon.

[rzman21]

The Eastern Churches similarly use the title “father”. Abba, abouna, etc.

I fail to understand why Church history for Protestant polemicists starts around the year 1000 A.D.