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To: rzman21

God the Holy Spirit brings us into the Church by baptizing us. It isn’t the little man who disobeys God, seeking to be called ‘father’ who brings us into the Body of Christ.


2 posted on 11/25/2011 7:54:22 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr
Why can't it be simply, "Call no man Father" in the same manner as some of us say, "Shall not be infringed" ?

What good is language if it doesn't speak simply to the simple?

3 posted on 11/25/2011 8:09:08 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: Cvengr

Where do we go from here?

We cannot interpret Matthew 23:9 as prohibiting reference to dads or priests as “fathers” without contradicting other scriptural passages in which the word “father” is used. Such an interpretation would render the commandment “honor your father” meaningless and would diminish the authority of the apostles and their successors. Admittedly, it is easier for a Protestant to accept the title “father” for those who beget children biologically. To use the title for others would imply the recognition of Jesus’ intention to establish a ministerial priesthood through the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

However, our lives of faith are conceived by the acts of those who sow the seeds of faith. The apostles and their successors were commissioned by Christ Himself. They bear His Word in our lives and are ministers of His grace through the sacraments of the Church, beginning with our spiritual rebirth in Baptism. By sharing in the high priesthood of Christ, bishops and priests share in the attributes of the Father. As there is no father but the one Father in heaven, and no teacher or master but Christ, we properly understand that these men, having been commissioned by Christ to act in His person, also represent the Father, whom the Son reveals (cf. Jn. 1:14-18). Insofar as they uniquely participate in the spiritual begetting of God’s children, bishops and priests are our fathers. For they share in the mission of Christ who reveals the eternal Father. St. Ignatius of Antioch, who knew the apostles, expressed this well when he wrote: “Let everyone revere . . . the bishop as the image of the Father” (as quoted in Catechism, no. 1554).

When addressing this issue with those who do not agree, we do well to point out the various opposing Scriptures and ask them to explain the meanings. Remind them that God cannot contradict Himself, so the Scriptures, which are His Word, cannot be contradictory. After hearing their answers, charitably question any contradictions. Most importantly, find common ground through which you can further an understanding of fatherhood. This common ground will probably be at the level of biological fatherhood. For on this level, interpreting Matthew 23:9 in an exclusively literal sense would undermine the Fourth Commandment. Most will recognize that in no way does this title take away from the ultimate power and authority God has over human life: “Thou didst knit me together in my mother’s womb” (Ps. 139:13). Rather, we recognize that all fatherhood comes from God, as St. Paul teaches in Ephesians 3:14-15: “For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named. . . .”

In this context, we can explain the fatherhood of a priest. Rather than bearing the authority of man and providing an example of pride as the scribes and Pharisees, a priest bears the authority of God in the New Covenant sealed in the blood of Christ. With such a commission, the priest is obligated to live in service to others.

Thus, whether we are speaking of biological fathers or spiritual fathers, we understand men in both circumstances to be participating in the one fatherhood of God. This is a gift from God, and must be lived in a godly manner. Only in this way can they raise their children to be children of light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw4bwKqp_aE


4 posted on 11/25/2011 8:13:31 PM PST by rzman21
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To: Cvengr; knarf; rzman21; count-your-change; BipolarBob

“God the Holy Spirit brings us into the Church by baptizing us. It isn’t the little man who disobeys God, seeking to be called ‘father’ who brings us into the Body of Christ.”

ok, let’s test this statement by the Scriptures:

what do they teach?

- Jesus gave the Church His authority to teach and baptize ( matthew 28 )
- baptism is for the remission of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit ( Acts 2:38, 22:16, Titus 3:4-8 )
- by One Spirit, we have all been baptized into One Body, the Church ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 )
- the Holy Spirit baptized thru and by the Church ( Acts 2:38, 8:36-39, 10:47, 22:16 )
- there is only One Baptism ( Ephesians 4:5 )
- baptism saves us ( 1 Peter 3:21 )
- no one was ever saved in the NT without the Holy Spirit working thru the Body of Christ, the Church ( anyone who disagrees, provide Scriptural proof )
- no one was saved in the NT by reading the Scriptures on their own and asking Jesus into their heart as personal Savior ( if anyone disagrees, provide Scriptural proof )
- no one was ever told to be baptized as a first act of obedience or as an outward display of something that has already happened ( if anyone disagrees, provide Scriptural proof )

so we see there is a big difference between what men following a 16th century tradition teach and what the Church of Jesus Christ has believed and taught for 2,000 years.

the question everyone must ask themselves is :

Am I going to follow Almighty God and His commands or am I going to follow the man or woman in the mirror?


53 posted on 11/26/2011 7:01:13 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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