How Calvinists Spread Holiday Cheer

WSJ ^ | November 18, 2011 | Aaron Belz

[Alex Murphy]

Next Thursday, as the rest of us tuck into our turkey feasts, hundreds of needy families in Southern California will open "Boxes of Love." Delivered by several churches led by Pacific Crossroads in Santa Monica, Calif., the boxes contain ingredients for a Thanksgiving meal for six. They allow impoverished families to skip food lines and neighborhood pantries and enjoy the holiday in their own homes.

What's unusual about the Pacific Crossroads congregation—and what underpins efforts such as Boxes of Love—is its theologically conservative raison d'être. A member church of the Presbyterian Church in America, Pacific Crossroads is committed to Reformation doctrines such as total depravity (every person is born sinful) and limited atonement (salvation is available only to the elect). These beliefs are typically regarded as ugly and inhumane by American culturati. Yet the church's pastor, Rankin Wilbourne, is happy to pepper his sermons with references to Bono and "Jersey Shore," and the church has grown to around 1,500 members from 500 in three years.

[SNIP]

And so in a city more often associated with Calvin Klein, John Calvin's teachings provide a basis for hope. In his commentary on II Corinthians 8, the 16th-century Swiss theologian connected Christians' assurance of salvation with their freedom to give to the poor:

"What makes us more close-handed than we ought to be is when we look too carefully, and too far forward, in contemplating the dangers that may occur—when we are excessively cautious and careful—when we calculate too narrowly what we will require during our whole life, or, in fine, how much we lose when the smallest portion is taken away. The man that depends upon the blessing of the Lord has his mind set free from these trammels and has, at the same time, his hands opened for beneficence."

[SkyDancer]

Well then if we’re predestined then why bother searching after Yashua? What would be the point? If say I was predestined to Hell and not know it (of course) then I would have spent my life worshiping Yashua, believing in Him and still go to Hell. That’s what Calvin preached.

[sr4402]

Calvinists are a blight on Christianity.

Calvinists are the best destroyers of modern liberalism there is.

[fungoking]

I have not met a calvinist yet who didn't think that they, and all of their family, were part of the elect; it is always “others” who may not have been chosen.

Aren't good deeds suppose to be done so that the “right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing”?

Maybe only one hand can get on the Internet or read the paper.

[Yulee]

Thought:

They are predestined to starve, so why deliver meals.

In other words: Only the elect are predestined for salvation, so don’t share the gospel, since most are predestined to hell, and those predestined for heaven, will find salvation anyway.

[circlecity]

"Not true. Total depravity says man cannot respond to God at all unless God first regenerates them"

“This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” John 6:65

[Alex Murphy]

Well then if we’re predestined then why bother searching after Yashua?

"None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one."
-- Romans 3:10-12

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.
-- John 6:44

And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses...
-- Colossians 2:13

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved—
and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
-- Ephesians 2:4-9

"Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do....go through his clothes and look for loose change."

[circlecity]

"Not true. Total depravity says man cannot respond to God at all unless God first regenerates them"

“This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” John 6:65

[fungoking]

“In other words: Only the elect are predestined for salvation, so don’t share the gospel, since most are predestined to hell, and those predestined for heaven, will find salvation anyway.”

Sounds like a logical conclusion from the 5-point doctrine.

I guess that why my dad (55 years conservative, fundamentalist SBC preacher who dabbled with being a 5-pointer for a while early on)jokingly says that calvinism is a perfect theology for lazy preachers, no need to visit, no need to evangelize, no need for missions...God will take care of them...or not.

[libdestroyer]

Actually it’s according to the Bible. Read Romans Chapter 9.
Here’s an excerpt:

“Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one object for special use and another for ordinary use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the objects of wrath that are made for destruction; and what if he has done so in order to make known the riches of his glory for the objects of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory” (Rom 9:21-23).

Essentially God is showing two parts of His divine character:
1. His grace
2. His wrath

Some are made simply to be an instrument of his wrath, while some are instruments of his grace and mercy. It’s a VERY HARD truth to grasp for most Christians.

[libdestroyer]

Calvinists back up their beliefs with scripture.

“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.”

~Romans 8:29

[swampfox101]

“This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” John 6:65”

John 6:35
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

Jesus teaches us that man comes to him.

And how does man know to come to Christ. Christ says those that come to will him come because they are taught.

John 6:44-46
New King James Version (NKJV)

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’[a]Therefore everyone who has heard and learned[b] from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.

Rom 1:16 teches us that the gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God unto salvation.

Romans 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”[b]

[Mr Rogers]

According to God’s word, do we believe and receive life, or receive life to believe? Is saving faith ever said to come from God?

[Mr Rogers]

Romans 9-11 discusses TRIBES, and deals with the problem of the Jews. It does not discuss individuals, who are still presented as having a choice.

[Mr Rogers]

Does Romans 8:29 discuss justification, or glorification?

Those who believe ARE predestined to become like Jesus.

[Dutchboy88]

"I’m saying Calvin said that. Even Paul said it is destined for us to die then the judgment."

???

Sorry, but this is a non sequitor. You asked why would Calvin speak of the "hope of salvation" if only a few elect could respond. Now, you say, "Calvin said that." Yes, that what we are talking about. And, Paul saying a time is appointed for every man to die, then comes judgment has nothing to do with whether folks are appointed to believe, or not. Help me here.

"As for me, I put myself in Yashua’s hand."

If Calvin was correct in his understanding of what the Scriptures taught (rather than "his theology"), then you did not put yourself in Yashua's hands. Jesus drew you to Himself and He will raise you up on that day. Blessed be the Name of the Lord, for you have been chosen for rescue. Somewhat different than the semi-pelagian "At least I chose Jesus."

[circlecity]

Regeneration always preceeds faith. Just as with Adam and Eve after their sin - God had to search them out because they were hiding from him. God always makes the first move.

[SkyDancer]

So then why bother if you’re predestined????

[fungoking]

Calvinists back up their beliefs with (selective) scripture.

2 Peter 3:9: “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

1 Timothy 2:3-4 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

So what here Jesus last words to his disciples? “We have already picked who are in and who is out and there isn't anything that is going to change that” or Matt 28: 18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

[Jemian]

I cannot imagine a person saying to God, "I want forgiveness" and God saying to them, "Nope, you're of the non-elect." Always, always, if you want to be a Christian, you can be a Christian. God didn't give us some magical "elector-detector" to enable us to see who is going to heaven and who isn't. If that were so, I need to change my profession. Or at least become more focused in my approach.

As to my being sure about the rest of my family, hmmmm, I could say that you need to meet my family. I don't see into their hearts nor understand completely what has transpired between them and God. I just know what He has promised in the Word and so I can either believe Him, or not.

It is more important that each person come to God themselves. We each individually need to recognize that we ourselves don't measure up to God's standards (haven't you even once been disappointed with your behavior, so of course you, and I, don't measure up to God's standards?) and that we need forgiveness. That forgiveness is in the person and work of Jesus Christ. All a person, any person, need to is pray, "Lord Jesus, I need you. I recognize that I am a sinner in need of a savior. I open the door of my heart and receive you as Savior and Lord. Amen."

[Siena Dreaming]

then I would have spent my life worshiping Yashua, believing in Him and still go to Hell.

Impossible.

If you believe on Him the Holy Spirit is active in your life; you are already seated in Heaven and nothing changes that.