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1 posted on 10/27/2011 4:05:58 PM PDT by rzman21
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To: rzman21

What does “ taught by St. Peter the Apostle
mean when the quotes are by other, later persons, not Apostles, and not, insofar as I know, divinely inspired>


2 posted on 10/27/2011 4:14:30 PM PDT by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man. Never trust anyone who hasn't been punched in the face)
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To: rzman21

I never understood the claim to sacred tradition as the apostles did not have any Christian traditions to call upon.


3 posted on 10/27/2011 5:13:18 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: rzman21
Unfortunately, Catholics and Eastern Orthodox don't agree with the church fathers about everything. Almost all the church fathers interpreted the Hexameron literally. But now Catholics/Orthodox, who bow to the fathers on every other issue, simply shrug their shoulders and say "they were men of their time" when it comes to the early chapters of Genesis.

Since Genesis 1-11 is not the slightest bit more impossible or unlikely than the virgin birth, resurrection of the dead, or real presence, I have concluded the near universal embrace of evolution and higher criticism by Catholics/Orthodox is based on nothing more than an antipathy towards the people with whom belief in Genesis1-11 is associated--a reason that is purely sociological, with no theological reasoning whatsoever.

5 posted on 10/27/2011 5:32:21 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu.)
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To: rzman21

The Church Fathers used both Scripture and Tradition to explain and defend the Catholic faith.

Which explains the rampant heresy and the intro duction of paganism into the church.


6 posted on 10/27/2011 5:39:27 PM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: rzman21



riune God.This section will deal with various aspects of the Holy Trinity in patristic thought. Corunum will cover such things as: God as Triune, the divinity of the Son, the divinity of the Holy Spirit and the procession of the Holy Spirit.

Holy Trinity
Documents illustrating that God is three divine Persons in the unity of one divine nature

God the Son
Documents illustrating that the Second Person of the Trinity,the Son, is consubstantial with the Father

Filioque
Documents illustrating that the Third Person of the Trinity,the Holy Spirit, proceeds from both the Father and the Son as one Principle.

God the Holy Spirit
Documents illustrating that the Third Person of the Trinity,the Holy Spirit, is God. The ante-Nicene Church did not express the deity of the Holy Spirit in very explicit terms, as much of the controversy in the ante-Nicene centered around the early Christological heresies. Much of the work for synthesizing the doctrine of the Holy Spirit's deity was accomplished by St. Athanasius and the Cappodocians.

19 posted on 10/27/2011 7:07:28 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: rzman21

Well, then I suppose you could show me from scripture the teaching of the bodily assumption of Mary.


26 posted on 10/27/2011 8:02:26 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: rzman21; smvoice; metmom; boatbums; daniel1212
"They [heretics] gather their views from other sources than the Scriptures...We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith" - Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.1.1 - Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.1.1 Sola Scriptura !

"I beg of you, my dear brother, to live among these books [scripture], to meditate upon them, to know nothing else, to seek nothing else." - Jerome (Letter 53:10)

"There is, brethren, one God, the knowledge of whom we gain from the Holy Scriptures, and from no other source. For just as a man, if he wishes to be skilled in the wisdom of this world, will find himself unable to get at it in any other way than by mastering the dogmas of philosophers, so all of us who wish to practice piety will be unable to learn its practice from any other quarter than the oracles of God. Whatever things, then, the Holy Scripture declare, at these let us look; and whatsoever things they teach, these let us learn; and as the Father wills our belief to be, let us believe; and as He wills the Son to be glorified, let us glorify Him; and as He wills the Holy Spirit to be bestowed, let us receive Him. Not according to our own will, nor according to our own mind, nor yet as using violently those things which are given by God, but even as He has chosen to teach them by the Holy Scriptures, so let us discern them." - Hippolytus, Against Noetus, ch 9

"For how can we adopt those things which we do not find in the holy Scriptures?" - Ambrose (On the Duties of the Clergy, 1:23:102)"We use Scripture to answer heresy and preceive that it is power and truth." - Basil the Great

“Let the inspired Scriptures then be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words.” - Gregory of Nyssa (d.ca, 395) “On the Holy Trinity”, NPNF, p. 327

“We are not content simply because this is the tradition of the Fathers. What is important is that the Fathers followed the meaning of the Scripture." - Basil the Great (ca.329–379) On the Holy Spirit, 7.16

“Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God.” - Augustine (354–430) De unitate ecclesiae, 10

"For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture are to be found all matters that concern faith and the manner of life,--to wit, hope and love, of which I have spoken in the previous book. After this, when we have made ourselves to a certain extent familiar with the language of Scripture, we may proceed to open up and investigate the obscure passages, and in doing so draw examples from the plainer expressions to throw light upon the more obscure, and use the evidence of passages about which there is no doubt to remove all hesitation in regard to the doubtful passages." - Augustine (On Christian Doctrine, 2:9)

30 posted on 10/27/2011 8:34:34 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: rzman21

bflr


47 posted on 10/28/2011 6:25:43 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: rzman21

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.” - Matthew 23:9


63 posted on 10/28/2011 9:04:27 AM PDT by RoadTest (For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.)
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To: rzman21; metmom; boatbums; Iscool
Irenaeus (A.D. 180): "Not of ourselves, but of God, is the blessing of our salvation...Man, who was before led captive, is taken out of the power of the possessor, according to the mercy of God the Father, and restoring it, gives salvation to it by the Word; that is, by Christ; that many may experimentally learn that not of himself, but by the gift of God, he receives immortality."

Tertullian: "God forbid that we should believe that the soul of any saint should be drawn out by the devil...For what is of God is never extinguished." "They[heretics] gather their views from other sources than the Scriptures...We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith" - Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.1.1

Do you want more?

67 posted on 10/28/2011 11:00:11 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: rzman21

Christ-followers are united in Christ.

You introduce and promote division.

Who is your master? Christ, or Satan?


123 posted on 10/29/2011 11:37:47 AM PDT by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: rzman21
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Prayer is Answering the Word of God [Ecumenical]
On the Apostolic Fathers
Fathers vs. the Evangelicals
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: These Words are the Word of God [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: The Two Meanings of the Bible [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Guide to the Discovery of Scripture [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Every page of the Bible is a Hymn to Christ [Ecumenical]

The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: The Four Gospels [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: The Scriptures are one book in Christ [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on Scripture: The Nourishing Bread of Scripture [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Reading Scripture with the Early Church Fathers [Ecumenical]
Fathers of the Church
Abortion and the Early Church [Fathers] (Catholic & Orthodox Caucus)
Why do Catholics always talk about the Early Church Fathers (Apostolic Fathers)?[Ecumenical]
The Church Fathers' Marian Interpretation of the Old Testament (Catholic Caucus)
Writings of the Fathers of the Church
THE CHURCH FATHERS: A DOOR TO ROME (fundamentalist warns saying they sound too Catholic)

Were the Church Fathers Closer to Protestantism Than to Catholicism?
The Faith of Our Fathers
The Early Church Fathers on the Assumption [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Look to the Church Fathers to Shed Light on Modern Problems, Writes the Pope
Origen: The Privileged Path to Knowing God Is Love
On Origen of Alexandria: He Was a True Teacher (April 25, 2007)
St. Clement of Alexandria: One of the Great Promoters of Dialogue Between Faith and Reason (April 18, 2007)
St. Irenaeus of Lyons: The First Great Theologian of the Church (March 28, 2007)
Early Church Fathers - Worship on Sabbath or Sunday
St. Justin Martyr: He Considered Christianity the “True Philosophy” (March 21, 2007)

Truly a Doctor of Unity (St. Ignatius of Antioch) (March 14, 2007)
On St. Clement of Rome -The Church Has a Sacramental, Not Political Structure (March 7, 2007)
Quotes from the Early Church Fathers
The Early Church Fathers on Baptism - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Contraception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Justification - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on the Immaculate Conception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Confession / Reconciliation - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Real Presence - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on Intercession of the Saints - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Hell - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Primacy of Peter/Rome (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
The Early Church Fathers on The Mother of God - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Apostolic Succession - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Early Church Fathers on (Oral) Tradition - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Church (Catholic Caucus)
The Early Church Fathers

154 posted on 10/29/2011 1:17:12 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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