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What the Church means by Purgatory
Fallible Blogma ^ | October 21, 2011

Posted on 10/22/2011 1:21:35 PM PDT by NYer

Catholics get a bad rap for thinking we somehow “merit” or “earn” our own sanctification (and salvation) through “works” that we do. But that’s a misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Our sanctification (our being made holy) happens only by the Grace of God. But it does require a response on our part. We must cooperate with it. This submission to and cooperation with God’s Grace, Catholics call a “work” and it takes various forms.

Some identify this response to God’s grace as a kind of “saving” or “justifying” faith (a faith that produces or is accompanied by works of conversion, hope and charity) as opposed to a “work” – something we do. Such a position is reconcilable with Catholic teaching once we understand each side’s terminology. On the other hand, I think it’s confusing to refer to this cooperation with and submission to God’s Grace as simply “faith alone” – which is one reason Catholics don’t refer to it that way (and probably one reason the Bible says we are “not” saved by “faith alone” – James 2:24).

Anyway, here Fr. Barron speaks a little bit about some of these sanctifying practices of the Church and what we mean by “Purgatory” (an extension of that sanctification) in the super-natural sense.

What the Church means by purgatory? - Watch You Tube Video

This exclusive preview clip was from CATHOLICISM, Episode X: “WORLD WITHOUT END: THE LAST THINGS”.

Explore the Church’s conviction that life here and now is preparation for an extraordinary world that is yet to come – a supernatural destiny. Father Barron presents the Catholic vision of death, judgment, heaven, hell and purgatory as he journeys to Florence, Ireland and Rome.

The vision of the Church sees beyond this world and invites us to consider a world without end. Father Barron shows how this vision is supported by the mystery and truth of the Resurrection of Jesus.

View exclusive preview clips from all episodes of the CATHOLICISM series coming out in Fall 2011.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: purgatory
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To: smvoice

Just for grins, try doing a little research on a subject, just look up the basic facts, before expressing an opinion.

Naah.... not a chance.


761 posted on 10/27/2011 9:59:12 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

I appreciate that, thanks.


762 posted on 10/27/2011 10:03:47 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: Natural Law; daniel1212
The ignorance or insensitivity of the moderators and anti-Catholic Freepers aside, it is a painful issue to many Catholics. The term "Roman Catholic" was not used until the 17th century and can be found in no other language. The Church never refers to herself as "Roman Catholic". Whether you choose to use the term or not is between you and your Christian conscience.

Don't blame Daniel1212, I said it. Or, wait...maybe now I am on your "DNR list". Hmmm... The Moderators are NOT ignorant NOR insensitive. We are fortunate to have such dedicated and hard working people looking out for us and Free Republic. And you of all people should know that.

I think you have been given many examples of the Roman Catholic Church using that name to differentiate between the Latin and the other rites within the umbrella. Since, in the past, the term "catholic" meant universal and this universal church was Apostolic in origin, I hardy see the justification for the Church of Rome placing a copyright on the name "Catholic Church". I'm sure the EOs would agree. Besides, as much as it may pain you to accept, ALL believers in Jesus Christ as Savior are part of this universal body of Christ. Get used to us, we'll be together for eternity.

763 posted on 10/27/2011 10:14:03 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: CynicalBear
I know. And some of those brave souls were murdered for their efforts. I think God can accomplish his will WITHOUT the strong-arming, threatening, torturing, conniving, treacherous and vicious actions of mere men too drunk with power to be the true representatives of Christ.
764 posted on 10/27/2011 10:21:14 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: Judith Anne

Oh, I get it now...you must be trying to get this thread closed for “childish behavior”. I’m not playing along just so you know. I prefer to discuss the topic. We’re done.


765 posted on 10/27/2011 10:31:18 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: boatbums

>>>Oh, I get it now...you must be trying to get this thread closed for “childish behavior”. I’m not playing along just so you know. I prefer to discuss the topic. We’re done.

No, I wasn’t. But now that you mention it....


766 posted on 10/27/2011 11:12:00 PM PDT by Judith Anne (HolyMary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death)
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To: boatbums

>>>> “...the strong-arming, threatening, torturing, conniving, treacherous and vicious actions of mere men too drunk with power to be the true representatives of Christ.

Is that ewhat you expect us to believe is you, discussing the topic? Some discussion!


767 posted on 10/27/2011 11:14:39 PM PDT by Judith Anne (HolyMary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death)
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To: smvoice

I’ll go root around again. I remember kind of scratching my head, so I did some research and promptly forgot the answer.

I think we all need to see “The Ten Commandments” again and watch really carefully in the scene where God zaps the commandments. Then we’ll know.


768 posted on 10/28/2011 3:23:27 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Itwas)
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To: smvoice
Here ya go, FWIW:

Wikipedia -- "often wrong,never in doubt"

The Catholic Encyclopedia-- which I read to help me remember that brevity is the soul of wit 'cause they are rarely brief.

769 posted on 10/28/2011 3:33:03 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Itwas)
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To: boatbums
maybe now I am on your "DNR list"

Do Not Resuscitate?

Honey, I'll resuscitate you any time. Do you like aged Bourbon or do you prefer the squeezin's straight from the still?

I believe the latter have a more, ah, stimulating effect on the respiratory system.

770 posted on 10/28/2011 3:37:08 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Itwas)
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To: D-fendr
we have Moses's original tablets in the basement of the Vatican ... .

Aw, man. You TOLD!

Watch your back, D00d! The albino ninja monks are coming, Sister Mary Yardstick at their head!

771 posted on 10/28/2011 3:42:52 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Itwas)
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To: Judith Anne; boatbums
I want an apology!

I'll think of for what later. I'm busy being silly right now.

It is said that when Alexander was besieging the city where he lived and people were rushing about making defensive preparations, Diogenes began rolling his tub up and down the street.

They asked him why and he said, "Well, everybody is so, so ACTIVE, I thought I'd take part."

When Alexander conquered the city he came to Diogenes and said, "I admire you so much, I'd do anything in my power for you. Is there anything you want, anything I can do for you?"

Diogenes said, "You're in my light, would you mind stepping to the side?"

And, I should point out, Cynic is Greek for ..... DAWG!

In other words, when Christians get all up in each other's grill, I want to start rolling my barrel up and down the street, knowumsayin? We're looking a little ridiculous.

772 posted on 10/28/2011 3:55:34 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Itwas)
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To: boatbums
The Moderators are NOT ignorant NOR insensitive. We are fortunate to have such dedicated and hard working people looking out for us and Free Republic. And you of all people should know that.


773 posted on 10/28/2011 4:08:45 AM PDT by Hacksaw (I don't hate Mormons. Is that okay?)
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To: annalex
If I ask you to make the list of your good works and bad works and based on that list let you in my house or not, sure, I would have judged you.

You completely missed it, whether intentionally or not, I don't know...

Everyone at that judgment is in heaven...They have already been judged when they accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior...They are all Christians at that judgment...

Look, you guys even claim the verses are talking about purgatory...Are there any hell bound Catholics in your purgatory???

Those are Christians who have passed from this life into a life of glory in the presence of Jesus Christ...Their bad works are burned up so there is no account of any wrongdoing on their part...

The verses are really simple to read and understand...Now whether you believe the simplicity may be another story...

774 posted on 10/28/2011 5:06:20 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: smvoice; CynicalBear; D-fendr
****crickets****

Sometimes when the air is full of projectiles, it's just not worth the effort to step out of the way of something as light as thistledown.

CynicalBear compares and contrasts and obvious summary of the Decalogue with ONE of the TWO Biblical presentations of the Ten Commandments, though he doesn't mention the other presentation in Deut 5:4-21.

For CynicalBear to call the truncated version the Catholic ten commandments is as silly as it would be if I used his post that Protestants don't include Deuteronomy in the Bible.

In fact, it is so embarrassingly fallacious, that decent people would ignore it as one might ignore inadvertent flatulence at a tea party.

But when that gentle courtesy is thrown in our face with the suggestion that we have no answer ... well, what answer is appropriate to flatulence at a tea party?

But here, since you ask for this tedium, are "the Catholic ten commandments":

CHAPTER 20

The Ten Commandments.* 1Then God spoke all these words:

2a I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt,b out of the house of slavery. 3You shall not have other gods beside me.* 4You shall not make for yourself an idolc or a likeness of anything* in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; 5you shall not bow down before them or serve them.d For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their ancestors’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation*; 6but showing love down to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7You shall not invoke the name of the LORD, your God, in vain.* e For the LORD will not leave unpunished anyone who invokes his name in vain.

8Remember the sabbath day—keep it holy.* 9Six days you may labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God.f You shall not do any work, either you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your work animal, or the resident alien within your gates. 11For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day he rested.g That is why the LORD has blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.*

12* h Honor your father and your mother, that you may have a long life in the land the LORD your God is giving you.i

13You shall not kill.* j

14You shall not commit adultery.k

15You shall not steal.l

16You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.m

17You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, his male or female slave, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.n

And here they are from Dt 5:
The Decalogue. 6d I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt,e out of the house of slavery. 7f You shall not have other gods beside me. 8You shall not make for yourself an idol or a likeness of anything in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; 9* you shall not bow down before them or serve them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous* God, bringing punishment for their parents’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation, 10but showing love down to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

11You shall not invoke the name of the LORD, your God, in vain.g For the LORD will not leave unpunished anyone who invokes his name in vain.

12h Observe the sabbath day—keep it holy, as the LORD, your God, commanded you. 13Six days you may labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God. You shall not do any work, either you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your ox or donkey or any work animal, or the resident alien within your gates, so that your male and female slave may rest as you do. 15Remember that you too were once slaves in the land of Egypt, and the LORD, your God, brought you out from there with a strong hand and outstretched arm. That is why the LORD, your God, has commanded you to observe the sabbath day.

16i Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD, your God, has commanded you, that you may have a long life and that you may prosper in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

17j You shall not kill.*

18k You shall not commit adultery.

19l You shall not steal.

20m You shall not bear dishonest witness against your neighbor.

21n You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.

You shall not desire your neighbor’s house or field, his male or female slave, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

I really don't have the energy or inclination to pick through the html to remove the notes and links to notes.

I will point out, though, that when CynicalBear presented this truncation as "the Catholic ten commandments" he gave no link or citation, or any authority whatsoever for calling them that. and in the face of that absence of reference, the polite ignoring of this travesty was deemed worthy of mockery.

It is said that viewing too much pornography weakens the sexual capability of men. I would propose an analogy: reading sites like Watchman Bible Study may weaken the thought process, with results like presenting what is obviously a summary, possibly for use with children, as "the Catholic ten commandments."

Yes, this was harsh. But you mocked gentleness.

775 posted on 10/28/2011 5:16:29 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Itwas)
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To: Mad Dawg; boatbums
Those in purgation know they are saved and that their purging is for their good. I think they are joyful in their loss.

"Joyful in the loss" still implies that they'd rather not be there. It is very much like an illness in natural life: it is something that often comes as a tool of our sanctification, but still you pray for healing and ask others to pray for your healing.

776 posted on 10/28/2011 5:48:07 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: boatbums

Protestants are Christians (and all men are our brothers) and sanctification through Bible alone is possible, — that is the “efficient through some respect” part. This does not mean that Protestantism is a valid way to heaven, — it is not. It is a sect based on lies about the Holy Gospel and self-interest of the pastors who ought to know better — they went to seminaries.


777 posted on 10/28/2011 5:52:36 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: boatbums; Natural Law; daniel1212; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww; ...
The only ignorance about the use of the term *Roman Catholic* seems to be by the Catholics themselves. I get a particular kick out of the last one. Someone needs to tell them to get with the program; that RC is NOT acceptable.


778 posted on 10/28/2011 5:53:25 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Natural Law
Even more amusing is that now the non-Catholics are claiming the ability and right to rightly divide and interpret the Lumen Gentium too.

Priceless.

779 posted on 10/28/2011 5:53:35 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
Oh yeah. I was thinking the other day about how one feels about pain when, say, it's post-op and you know you're getting better as opposed to when it's some problem. They're both pain, but post op pain is a lot easier to take because of the hope.

Still, as you say, it would be better not to suffer. But, you know, the little I gave up to be Catholic? No PROBLEM! Income and status are (naughty word) compared to this. Still, I could use the income.... :-)

780 posted on 10/28/2011 5:56:38 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Itwas)
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