Posted on 10/22/2011 1:21:35 PM PDT by NYer
Catholics get a bad rap for thinking we somehow “merit” or “earn” our own sanctification (and salvation) through “works” that we do. But that’s a misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Our sanctification (our being made holy) happens only by the Grace of God. But it does require a response on our part. We must cooperate with it. This submission to and cooperation with God’s Grace, Catholics call a “work” and it takes various forms.
Some identify this response to God’s grace as a kind of “saving” or “justifying” faith (a faith that produces or is accompanied by works of conversion, hope and charity) as opposed to a “work” – something we do. Such a position is reconcilable with Catholic teaching once we understand each side’s terminology. On the other hand, I think it’s confusing to refer to this cooperation with and submission to God’s Grace as simply “faith alone” – which is one reason Catholics don’t refer to it that way (and probably one reason the Bible says we are “not” saved by “faith alone” – James 2:24).
Anyway, here Fr. Barron speaks a little bit about some of these sanctifying practices of the Church and what we mean by “Purgatory” (an extension of that sanctification) in the super-natural sense.
What the Church means by purgatory? - Watch You Tube Video
This exclusive preview clip was from CATHOLICISM, Episode X: “WORLD WITHOUT END: THE LAST THINGS”.
Explore the Church’s conviction that life here and now is preparation for an extraordinary world that is yet to come – a supernatural destiny. Father Barron presents the Catholic vision of death, judgment, heaven, hell and purgatory as he journeys to Florence, Ireland and Rome.
The vision of the Church sees beyond this world and invites us to consider a world without end. Father Barron shows how this vision is supported by the mystery and truth of the Resurrection of Jesus.
View exclusive preview clips from all episodes of the CATHOLICISM series coming out in Fall 2011.
I agreed with you on your: “I AM ignorant.”
Oh, really? What was the demand today from any Catholic for an apology, retraction, or reparation?
I’m sure you do, D-fendr. I’m sure you do..
So then, you disagree with the decrees that came out of the second Vatican Council? Such as:
1. All who have been "justified by faith in baptism" are members of the Body of Christ; they all have the right to be called Christian; the children of the Catholic Church accept them as brothers.
2. The Catholic Church believes that the separated Churches and communities "are efficient in some respects." But the Holy Ghost makes use of these Churches; they are means of salvation to their members.
Just goes to show you that we Catholics do not marh in lockstep (as we have been accused of doing).
So, no demand today from any Catholic for a retraction, reparation, or apology?
What about yesterday? You said it happens every day.
1.I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods (small g!) before me.
2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Remember thou keep holy the Lord‘s Day.
4. Honor thy father and thy mother.
5. Thou shall not kill.
6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7. Thou shalt not steal.
8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.
Then from scripture.
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Notice any difference?
Nope, you can't blame Cynical Bear for your mistake. It started WAY before his #584. In fact, this is where you went wrong:
To: boatbums
Those people are NOT the ones who refused to believe - they call him Lord - but they were relying on their "many wonderful works" they did to earn them eternal life. This gift only comes by faith in the grace of God who gives us eternal life through Christ, not our works.
I suggest you look at that scripture again, to remind yourself of what Christ Jesus really said, not how you choose to twist it. Matthew 25:30-50 31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ 41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Where did Chrst sy their faith would save them? Let's be literal here.
448 posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:53:17 AM by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
Don’t you get the impression sometime that some people don’t have the maturity it takes to dialog with other adults?
Love to consider your opinion, but there’s your infallible man rule in effect for you here.
****crickets****
Translation: uh-oh...
That’s starting to look a little lame D.
And recognizes that they are deficient in other respects. Not all "separated" churches are equal. Some differ with Catholic doctrine in limited areas and other are indeed damnable and heretical sects. We know them by their fruits and fruitcakes.
Even more amusing is that now the non-Catholics are claiming the ability and right to rightly divide and interpret the Lumen Gentium too. LOL
Ah, it must be a habit: Jumping in with ignorance and prejudice, yet again. This time without a little due diligence research of the two texts and numbering schemes of the Decalogue.
It was lame when you started it, or rather followed the lame idea of others. I’m merely holding you to it.
You can still vent your gas with other folks, just not me anymore.
AH, yesyesyes..due diligence research of the two texts and numbering schemes of the Decalogue. Of course. Or maybe it’s just “schemes”, passed off as “wisdom”.
Aren't you missing the point Daniel1212 was making that those going through this "cleansing" fire are:
1. Both going to Heaven and both go through this process.
2. The wood, hay and stubble are burned up and the person "loses" rewards BUT still goes to Heaven.
3. What remains, gold, silver, precious gems, after the fire result in rewards IN ADDITION TO Heaven.
If this verse is a proof text for Purgatory, then why is there any mention of gold, silver, precious gems at all that remain and for which the person receives rewards in addition to Heaven? If Purgatory's purpose is cleansing of temporal punishments due for venial sins not properly cleansed beforehand, what do the gold, silver, precious gems represent? They cannot be good works that get them into Heaven since it is by grace we are saved through faith without works. Why are they mentioned at all?
>>>>Don’t you get the impression sometime that some people don’t have the maturity it takes to dialog with other adults?
No comment, just a hearty laugh.
>>>They cannot be good works that get them into Heaven since it is by grace we are saved through faith without works. Why are they mentioned at all?
I don’t know, why don’t you ask the Holy Spirir? Or Jesus Christ, who first preached on them?
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