Posted on 10/13/2011 5:52:58 PM PDT by Gamecock
I subscribe to a Mormon apologetic Newsletter titled FAIR (Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research).
Normally it falls into my junk email account and I don't even open it, but today I had a few minutes and scanned the latest offering and was stunned to see the hypocrisy of the authors. Please note the entire email is posted below.
This particular issue has a great deal of whining about those mean Christians who make the spurious claim that Mormons are not Christians, but are a cult.
A couple of examples:
-"Mormons are a cult" epithets into the national spotlight. In his "On Faith" commentary this week, Church Public Affairs managing director Michael Otterson suggests why people make such claims and shares his own experience of being labeled not Christian.
Calling Mormonism a cult is old hat, and the voters are yawning.
-Texas Gov. Rick Perry's minister ally Robert Jeffress might think Mitt Romney's church is a cult, but a new documentary on the presidency and Mormonism suggests that Romney could snag the nation's top job despite the religious feud between Christians.
-....the "cult" of Mormonism means that you raise a solid family, work hard, make money and do good for the greater community of mankind, then by all means pass the Kool-Aid.
-It seems just too petty and small for a country as big as America to have. America, as a melting pot of many cultures and many beliefs, is supposed to be more tolerant of differences.
-Another woman in Texas remembers that her LDS congregation was banned from participating in a community-wide Christmas event and that non-Church members once barged into Sunday meetings shouting that Mormons were cult members and devil worshippers.
The reader will note, when comparing the above quotes with the below article, that the quotes originate from the MSM. Why would the MSM, a known enemy of Christianity, care if Christians consider Mormons a cult or not? I suggest that these quotes are really more of an attack on Christianity than some deep concern for Mormons. Notice how when Mormons talk family values the press fawns over them. When Christians do the same we are are intolerant of other lifestyles.
That being said, consider the above quotes. Christians who deny Mormons mainstream status are bigoted, intolerant, etc. But ask your self this: are Mormons not intolerant when they make the following claim: that Joseph Smith unearthed a book of golden plates from a New York hillside in 1827 with the help of an angel and translated hieroglyphics that detailed the true Christian faith.
So Mormons don't want to be Christians, but rather the "true Christian faith." Isn't that just a bit intolerant?
I suspect what is really going on here is that in reality the MSM sees Romney as a palatable Republican. They don't really care about Mormons, but are afraid of Cain and Perry.
Take a few minutes and scan the below and see what other nuggets jump out at you. There are more than a couple.
And BTW I do know about Mormonism. I lived next to Mormons, I was proselytized by Mormons. I have read literature by Mormons and anti-Mormons. I have seen documentaries by Mormons, anti-Mormons, and supposedly unbiased reporters.
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So, IOW, you know NOTHING about Mormonism. Got it.
I used to be Mormon, I lived it.
What the LDS puts out, what the LDS missionaries say isn’t what the LDS really believe or is sugar coated for PR. The ‘antiMormon’ stuff can be good or bad, depending on who did it, for example, the stuff from Ed Decker is no where near as reliable as the stuff from UTLM.ORG (Tanners).
Christians believe they are the one true faith, but we don’t believe our denomination is the oNLY true one (with a few execptions like KJV only Baptists). We accept other denominations as being Christian. You seem to be stuck on an erroneous belief of Christians calling other Christians non Christian and that isn’t the case.
Other churches accept each other’s baptism, for example, Methodists, Catholic, Orthodox and Evangelicals accepts each other’s baptism and/or confirmation for church membership and conversion. However, NONE of them accept Mormon baptism. Christians of all denominations agree on the important things, like the person work and nature of Christ however the LDS do not. Mormons reject the Bible except for a few poof texts (other churches do not). And since Vatican II, Catholics no longer consider Protestants to be outside the faith, however they do still exclude the LDS.
Yes, it does - if it goes against the Bible. Now if you want to say that the Bible is wrong, that is another thing.
And the Lord had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. – Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 5:21
Dear Mitt,
We have a simple question that requires a simple YES or NO answer.
Do you believe the Book of Mormon is true?
Please answer either YES or NO .
Sincerely,
Main Stream Media
The Mormon Church's past is indeed racist. From its scripture, to its doctrine, to teachings by top leadership, to its overt treatment of Blacks and American Indians – it is easy find hundreds of examples of overt racism – like the above quote from one of Mormonism’s most sacred books.
If Mitt says YES, then he has proven himself a bigot. If Mitt says NO, then he has lived a lie throughout his entire life.
Any of you Freepers dumb enough to think the MSM will not ask this question, or one like it, and then hammer home Mitt’s response if he becomes the Republican nominee?
Have you ever visited a creationism vs. evolution thread on FR? A Free Will / Predestination thread?
Whoever we choose will be dumped on. Mitt will be damaged more by Romneycare than Mormonism if he is the nominee.
Its called lying for the lord. Again I say you know nothing of mormonISM.
The Mormon that came to my door tried to convert me by reading me Bible stories. There was no disparagement involved.
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RED FLAG THAT SHOWS YOU HAVE NOT MET LDS MISSIONARIES.
LDS missionaries (I trained for an LDS mission but left at the last moment for health reasons) do not tried to convert me by reading me Bible stories. In fact they avoid the Bible in their set of discussions unless it is to take a verse out of context as a ‘proof text’. The introduction conversation doesn’t mention the Bible at all. Rather the focus is on the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith and the First Vision.
Mormons don’t talk bad about Christians to their faces, they do it behind their backs. It is to make ‘the Church’ look good. However here are some quotes by LDS leadership which are believed and used by the LDS still today....
Scripture:
“And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth...”
- Doctrine and Covenants, section 1, verse 30
Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. (1805 - 1844):
“My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.”
“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ‘they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.’”
“He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, ‘Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.’ I then said to my mother, ‘I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.’ It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me?
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Joseph Smith–History, v. 1, pp. 8–26
“What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270
“...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels.”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60
“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 1, p. xl
Prophet Brigham Young (1801 - 1877):
“He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong; that they were following the precepts of men instead of the Lord Jesus; that He had a work for him to perform, inasmuch as he should prove faithful before Him.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 171
“Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 176
“When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was groveling in darkness.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 73
“With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 199
“The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 171
“...the time came when Paganism was engrafted into Christianity, and at last Christianity was converted into Paganism rather than converting the Pagans. And subsequently the Priesthood was taken from among men, this authority was re-called into the heavens, and the world was left without the Priesthood—without the power of God—without the Church and Kingdom of God.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 22, p. 44
Apostle Heber C. Kimball (1802 - 1868):
“Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers’ sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89
Prophet John Taylor (1808 - 1887):
“Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.”
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 6, p. 167
“Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.”
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 10, p. 127
“What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast.”
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225
“What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God.”
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225
Apostle Orson Pratt (1811 - 1881):
“Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon’ whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent.”
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255
“But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches ... But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance”
- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 172
“... who, in his right mind, could, for one moment, suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the whole Bible has escaped pollution so as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original.”
- Apostle Orson Pratt, “The Bible and Tradition, without Further Revelation, an insufficient Guide,” Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon – No. 3, December 1, 1850, p. 47; see Abanes, One Nation Under Gods, p. 383-384
“This great apostacy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now. A short time after the death of the last of the Apostles, the Christian Church, what few of them remained, were persecuted from mountain to mountain, from den to den, from one cave of the earth to another, and from nation to nation until they were entirely exterminated and rooted out of the earth. Well, what was left? An apostate Christianity, a Christianity without revelators, without any voice of God, without any Prophets to unfold the future, without visions, without any communications from the heavens.”
- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 44
“This class of men, calling themselves Christian, uniting with the various forms of the pagan religion, adopting many of their ceremonies and institutions, became very popular, and finally some of the pagans embraced Christianity and were placed, as it were, upon the throne, and what they termed Christianity became very popular indeed. How long has this order of things existed, this dreadful apostacy, this class of people that pronounced themselves Zion, or Christians, without any of the characteristics of Zion? It has existed for some sixteen or seventeen centuries. It has spread itself and grown and gone into the four quarters of the earth. It is the great ecclesiastical power that is spoken of by the revelator John, and called by him the most corrupt and most wicked of all the powers of the earth, under the name of spiritual Babylon, or in other words Babel, which signifies confusion. This great and corrupt power is also represented by John as presenting a golden cup to the nations, full of all manner of filthiness and abominations.”
- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 14, p. 346
“But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be. They say, “We have built chapels unto the name of the Lord; we call our Churches Christian Churches, they are called the Church of Christ, St. John’s Church, St. Paul’s Church, St. Peter’s Church, and after others of the ancient Apostles;” and one who had never studied the pattern which God has given of the Christian Church would almost really believe that they are Christian Churches. But there has been a long apostacy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance, and they are represented in the revelations of St. John as a woman sitting upon a scarlet colored beast, having a golden cup in her hand, full of filthiness and abominations, full of the wine of the wrath of her fornication; that in her forehead there was a name written—”Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots.” This kind of a church has existed in great abundance, for as John the Revelator says, she was to have her dominion upon many waters, and she was to make all nations drunken with the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 172
“Q. After the Church of Christ fled from earth to heaven, what was left? A. A set of wicked Apostates, murderers, and idolaters, who, after having made war with the saints, and overcome them, and destroyed them out of the earth, were left to follow the wicked imaginations of their own corrupt hearts, and to build up churches by human authority, and to follow after the cunning craftiness of uninspired men; having no Apostle, Prophet, or Revelator to inquire of God for them: and thus, because of wickedness, the Church, and Priesthood, and gifts, and ordinances and blessings of the everlasting Gospel, were taken from the earth, and reserved in heaven until the fulness of times, when it was predicted that they should again be restored among men to continue until the end should come.”
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, Chapter 16, p. 205
Prophet Wilford Woodruff (1807 - 1898):
“The Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called”
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 196
Apostle George Q. Cannon (1827 - 1901):
“After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon.”
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324
Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith (1876 - 1972):
“Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness.”
- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 266
“For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the ‘Christian’ churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men.”
- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 282
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie (1915 - 1985):
“...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization [Christianity], founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13
“Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46
“... all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.... in large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed the Unknown Gods.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 269, 374-375
Prophet Ezra Taft Benson (1899 - 1994):
“This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth...”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 164-165
Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley (1910 - ):
“We accept that as a statement which came to him [Joseph Smith’s vision in which he was told all other religions were “abominations”], which is printed, of course, and published in his history as a statement. But we go forward with a friendly relationship, with a respect for people everywhere and with an effort to accept them as we meet them and, where opportunity exists, to talk with them and explain to them what we believe.... We don’t criticize them for what they believe. We accept the good that comes of that understanding which they have, but we feel we having something to offer beyond what they have.”
- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, interview with Richard Ostling, as quoted in Mormon America, by Richard and Joan Ostling, p. 323
“Said he [a Protestant minister] ‘I’ve been all through this building, this temple which carries on its face the name of Jesus Christ, but nowhere have I seen any representation of the cross, the symbol of Christianity. I have noted your buildings elsewhere and likewise find an absence of the cross. Why is this when you say you believe in Jesus Christ.’ I responded:‘ I do not wish to give offense to any of my Christian brethren who use the cross on the steeples of their cathedrals and at the altars of their chapels, who wear it on their vestments, and imprint it on their books and other literature. But for us, the cross is the symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the living Christ.’ He then asked: ‘If you do not use the cross, what is the symbol of your religion?’ I replied that the lives of our people must become the only meaningful expression of our faith and, in fact, therefore, the symbol of our worship.”
- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, April 1975
Others:
“… we can see the situation in which the world now stands that the eyes of the whole world are blinded, that the chuches have all become corrupted, yea every church upon the face of the earth; that the Gospel of Christ is nowhere preached.”
- Lucy Mack Smith, Joseph Smith Jr.’s mother, letter to Solomon Mack, January 6, 1831, reprinted, in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, v. 1, p. 216
“God is not at its head, making that church [i.e., Christianity] – following the appearance in it of Satan – no longer the church of God. To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the apostles is not to say that all that is in it is Satanic.”
- Kent P. Jackson, “Early Signs of Apostasy,” Ensign, December 1984, p. 9
Let’s skip all your bather about mormonISM (which is clear you know nothing about)and concentrate on how you are undecided between Cain and Romney. Really? You are undecided between a liberal and a conservative, you stretch the bounds of credulity.
Agreed. See my tagline. I do what I do because I’ve seen it work and work well.
Tony Alamo tracts and YEC drivel.
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Tony Alamo is a cult leader, not a Christian.
I see them everywhere, mostly loafing around on those bicycles, think they ever convert anyone? heehee.
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Going door to door, not really. The converts come from other members inviting their friends “Every member a missionary” and prepping their friends/acquaintances to meet with the LDS missionaries and help with the pressure to convert (and there IS pressure).
Learn to read.
I did not say that I was undecided between Cain and Romney. I said that if Romney is the nominee I would be undecided between voting for him or voting for someone else.
So I'm not a big Romney supporter. I know that a lot of people say they will never vote for Romney, but there were a lot of people saying they could never vote for McCain either, and then they went on this whiner's brigade about how we had to hold our noses and vote for the lesser of two evils or vote for Palin and hope for heavenly intervention.
If the worst case scenario happens and Romney is the nominee then I might check back on all the Mormon-bashing threads and see which of you is still adamantly opposed to him becoming President.
Even I know that, but you need to inform the evangelicals that passed around his literature while praising his great wisdom and holiness.
Praise the Lord indeed! I am humbly grateful that I was rescued out of Mormonism.
Your post glosses over a camel as it tries to swallow a gnat.
At the end of the day, ALL Christian churches have a shared belief in the core elements of Christianity. Mormons do not. That is why Mormonism isn’t a Christian faith.
Mormonism is a collection of heresies the Christian church condemned, masonism, new age religion and paganism.
They are cult followers not Evangelicals. Again with the over reaching definition of ‘Christian’.
What my main point was is that I do not consider a Mormon a liar for calling himself a Christian. I do not hold it against Romney in any way.
I would vote for a Mormon. I would have voted for Orrin Hatch if he were the nominee in the 80's.
If Romney is the nominee and I don't vote for him it won't be because he is Mormon.
We have more to fear from the scum that oozed out of Skull & Bones than whatever shenanigans are going on in the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City.
Is that a cult? I might say so, but you probably wouldn't.
I suspected that the converts were mostly from acquaintances of Mormons.
The few Mormons that I know, all seem to have some emotional mental instability going on, most likely prior to joining. They were in emotional need of "Petting/stroking", so to speak, and the Mormons saw that weakness and were more than ready to fill the bill. Sort of like a slick salesman seeing his next victim and ready to say whatever it takes to make the sale.
These people most likely never knew the Real Christ, so they were susceptible to anything that looked "GOOD".
Tell me, how did you finally learn the truth about Christ and get out of the Mormon cult? I would love to hear your testimony on that, as well as reading all your inside information about MormonISM on this thread.
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