Posted on 10/13/2011 5:52:58 PM PDT by Gamecock
I subscribe to a Mormon apologetic Newsletter titled FAIR (Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research).
Normally it falls into my junk email account and I don't even open it, but today I had a few minutes and scanned the latest offering and was stunned to see the hypocrisy of the authors. Please note the entire email is posted below.
This particular issue has a great deal of whining about those mean Christians who make the spurious claim that Mormons are not Christians, but are a cult.
A couple of examples:
-"Mormons are a cult" epithets into the national spotlight. In his "On Faith" commentary this week, Church Public Affairs managing director Michael Otterson suggests why people make such claims and shares his own experience of being labeled not Christian.
Calling Mormonism a cult is old hat, and the voters are yawning.
-Texas Gov. Rick Perry's minister ally Robert Jeffress might think Mitt Romney's church is a cult, but a new documentary on the presidency and Mormonism suggests that Romney could snag the nation's top job despite the religious feud between Christians.
-....the "cult" of Mormonism means that you raise a solid family, work hard, make money and do good for the greater community of mankind, then by all means pass the Kool-Aid.
-It seems just too petty and small for a country as big as America to have. America, as a melting pot of many cultures and many beliefs, is supposed to be more tolerant of differences.
-Another woman in Texas remembers that her LDS congregation was banned from participating in a community-wide Christmas event and that non-Church members once barged into Sunday meetings shouting that Mormons were cult members and devil worshippers.
The reader will note, when comparing the above quotes with the below article, that the quotes originate from the MSM. Why would the MSM, a known enemy of Christianity, care if Christians consider Mormons a cult or not? I suggest that these quotes are really more of an attack on Christianity than some deep concern for Mormons. Notice how when Mormons talk family values the press fawns over them. When Christians do the same we are are intolerant of other lifestyles.
That being said, consider the above quotes. Christians who deny Mormons mainstream status are bigoted, intolerant, etc. But ask your self this: are Mormons not intolerant when they make the following claim: that Joseph Smith unearthed a book of golden plates from a New York hillside in 1827 with the help of an angel and translated hieroglyphics that detailed the true Christian faith.
So Mormons don't want to be Christians, but rather the "true Christian faith." Isn't that just a bit intolerant?
I suspect what is really going on here is that in reality the MSM sees Romney as a palatable Republican. They don't really care about Mormons, but are afraid of Cain and Perry.
Take a few minutes and scan the below and see what other nuggets jump out at you. There are more than a couple.
Christian conservatives knew that Obama did not belong to their faith and they voted accordingly.
They’ll do the same when they decline to vote for Romney.
There just isn’t anything in core Mormonism that comes from Torah/Tanakh.
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Not really, no, but when I was LDS I was taught (and believed until I learned otherwise through study) that the LDS temple rituals are THE SAME as the ones from the Jewish temple.
I was deceived on a few occasions by evangelical proslyetizers. Their chief mode of operation was to create "Christian" groups that appeared from the outside to welcome all Christians. Over time they would use deceit and half truths to disparage anyone that belonged to an established church (Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Catholic, etc.) The goal was to get everyone to break from the "faith of their fathers" and join a local "non-denominational" church.
I would concede that evangelical religious beliefs by-and-large are closer to Christian orthodoxy than those of Mormons, but their beliefs regarding biblical authorship and science are so whacko that they make Mormon beliefs seem downright sensible.
I reluctantly voted for McCain (rather than against Obama) because he is a war hero, he has experience, and the economy was going to hell. I also liked his running mate.
If you believe that most Christian conservatives voted against Obama because they believed him to be a secret Muslim or a secret atheist then you are in a minority group so small that you could hold meetings in a room no larger than a walk-in closet.
Then according to your (about) third paragraph you know nothing of mormonISM.
A Christian conservative could NEVER vote for him, regardless of party, ideology or handsome good looks because of his faith.
For a Christian conservative, being a CHRISTIAN comes before being a conservative.
He is not a Christian, and belongs to a faith that preaches hatred and anger from the pulpit. Every Christian who knew that about him could recognize that he wasn’t a Christian.
You may have voted for a war hero based on the economy.
I voted AGAINST a man who belongs to a false faith and who probably is a Muslim. I’m a Christian conservative. You’re not a Christian conservative.
Move along, now...
mormonISM is NOT Christianity.
What are you?
Mormons can scream all they want...Catholics have been persecuted, banned,treated like non citizens, and it happens to this day....
Except that mormon make it doctrine, the others not so.
And BTW I do know about Mormonism. I lived next to Mormons, I was proselytized by Mormons. I have read literature by Mormons and anti-Mormons. I have seen documentaries by Mormons, anti-Mormons, and supposedly unbiased reporters.
My take is that in order to truly believe a particular faith you necessarily have to believe that it is the one true faith. This is true for all Christian faiths, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, etc.
And if you believe in a particular faith then you want everyone else to believe that as well. And if you are trying to sell your faith to others you will highlight the good points and downplay the bad points.
And if you look into the past of all faiths you will find that they killed innocents and harbored miscreants.
In what way is Mormonism different from Christianity in general that Catholicism isn't different from Protestantism?
We live in a pluralistic society. We seldom get to vote for the best candidate, or even a decent one. I am hoping that Cain emerges as the Republican candidate, but if not then I will have to consider voting for Romney.
If Romney is the Republican candidate and I decide to vote against him it will either be because I find him to be too liberal to solve our economic problems, or because living in California I can make a strategic vote for the Green Party candidate in hopes they will receive 5% of the national vote and become a thorn in the side of the Democrats.
It won't be because he wears special underwear, engages in secret rites, and believes that one day he will rule an entire planet.
(But after all, if he is one day going to rule an entire planet, don't you think we should give him the chance to rule over one country, just to give him a little experience?
/sarc)
I would concede that evangelical religious beliefs by-and-large are closer to Christian orthodoxy than those of Mormons, but their beliefs regarding biblical authorship and science are so whacko that they make Mormon beliefs seem downright sensible.
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Having been both, you are dead wrong on this. Also, all but a few ‘evangelicals’ (mostly KJV only independent baptists) do not go around trying to get people to leave mainline churches (like you listed) in favor of a non-denominational church. Also, Evangelicals don’t lie about their faith, especially to other Christians. We accept there can be differences, and we agree on the basics However the LDS intentionally deceive non-LDS to get them to join the ‘one true church’. Here is an example of a LDS/non-LDS convo showing how they intentionally lie and omit things.
Every LDS member is expected to find ‘investigators’ (people who would be interested in converting who take the missionary discussions - similar to RCIA). There is also a lot of people who hear things about beliefs but don’t know enough to know what the LDS are saying, that they use different meanings for terms, even though the LDS usually know that Christians mean different things. A typical exchange could go like this...
non - LDS - “I have a lot of Mormon friends, and they are nice people, but don’t Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers?”
LDS - No! We don’t believe that at all! Jesus is the only begotten Son of God! Joseph Smith saw Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and they said that all other churches had some problems and Joseph needed to start a Church that was the same as the one when Jesus Christ was on the Earth. Why don’t you come over for dinner and we will have the missionaries talk to you? There is a set of 6 discussions that they give that shows what we believe.
non-LDS - “Well, ok, but I read somewhere that Mormons believe they will become Gods”
LDS - “That was probably written by someone who has a grudge against the Church. They probably are one of the ones who gets paid to badmouth the Church or someone who couldn’t live by the principles of the Church so they left or they were offended by someone in their ward.
Ok, lets parse this. Notice how many times “the Church” is used. For the LDS it is all about “the Church”. LDS ‘testimonies’ often start out with “I know the Church is true”.
Then there is the automatic denial that Jesus and Satan are brothers. We saw it on this a thread the other day even. Now, all LDS know that their church teaches Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers. So why would you get a resounding “NO”? Because it makes their theology look silly. By stating “No” the LDS are lying to you, but they are thinking “Well they aren’t flesh brothers, just spirit brothers like we all are, Jesus is our Elder brother”. The other day an LDS came on one of these threads and stated “Jesus and Lucifer aren’t brothers, as if by Mary!”. Notice the subtlety of it. “As if by Mary” implying they aren’t physical brothers (which no one claimed). But they left out That Lucifer was the second born and Jesus was the firstborn of the spirit children.
Next we come to what would appear to be a rebuttal to the claim Jesus and Satan are brothers. “Jesus is the only begotten Son of God!” what they are not telling you is that they mean it in a literal sense. Jesus and Satan are SPIRIT brothers (like all of us) but Jesus is God’s physical son, God came down, had sex with Mary and conceived Jesus. So it isn’t a rebuttal at all and the LDS know that. They are intentionally twisting words to make you think they don’t believe Jesus and Satan are Spirit brothers.
Next Phrase - “Joseph Smith saw Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and they said that all other churches had some problems and Joseph needed to start a Church that was the same as the one when Jesus Christ was on the Earth.” This is referring to the “First Vision” (of which there are several contradictory accounts) and the Great Apostasy. The LDS will tone down things said about other Christians. In the first vision account, Smith isn’t told that other churches ‘had problems’ he was told “I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt http://lds.org/library/display/0,4945,104-1-3-4,00.html
“All wrong”, “Corrupt” and Creeds an abomination are not the same as “some problems” and the LDS know that. But they will soften it in order to not scare people off or to put the LDS church in a ‘better light’.
Next - about becoming Gods. Notice the LDS response is to go down a rabbit hole, rather than addressing the comment. Instead they lead the person to believe that the source was unreliable, or written by someone who had something to gain (money) or a former Mormon with a grudge. The question itself isn’t even addressed (lying by omission). It also causes the person to think that they might be wrong and that the LDS don’t believe that, even though the LDS person knows they do.
Finally, the invitation to meet with the missionaries. There is an assumption by many that these are people who know more about Mormonism than the average member and that isn’t true either. Most men and quite a few women serve LDS missions (I nearly did). They don’t have special knowledge. They also don’t tell you is the goal of those 6 discussions is to get you baptized Mormon and there is pressure put on you to read the Book of Mormon, pray about it, make commitments and convert. Those 6 discussions aren’t just a summary of LDS beliefs, they are the requirements for conversion and that is their goal. But they don’t tell you that, they make it sound like this is just a friendly way of talking to knowledgeable people about what the LDS believe.
Also, there is the doctrine of ‘line upon line, precept upon precept’ or “milk before meat”, that coverts are only told doctrines when they are spiritually ready to hear them. The missionary discussions are the barest of milk. You learn one set of things in them, and then after you convert you start to learn the rest of LDS theology. Then after a year of faithful membership (sometimes more) you get to go to the LDS temple and learn the ‘meat’ doctrines and are sworn to secrecy (used to have to swear blood oaths).
The Mormon that came to my door tried to convert me by reading me Bible stories. There was no disparagement involved.
My Mormon next door neighbors never disparaged Christianity.
The Mormon who was part of our group of friends in High School never disparaged Christianity nor any of the Mormons I met at the dances, basketball games, or camps he dragged me to.
If anything the Mormons were akin to Christians like Joel Osteen: always emphasizing the positive and not spending much time on scripture or the downsides of not living a Christian life.
LDS relies heavily on ignorance of the masses. Even more so than I originally thought.
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Yes they do and they encourage that ignorance. It is a common theme to hear leaders (and other rank and file LDS) warn other members not to ‘think themselves out of the Church”.
I was warned several times not to try to prove ‘anti-Mormons’ wrong because it would ‘destroy my testimony’ and in way, they were right because when I found out the ‘antis’ were not lying but the LDS leadership was I left Mormonism.
The only thing they were deceitful about was acting more tolerant up front than they really were down deep. They also seemed to be rather wimpy in their proselytizing efforts: going after Christians with whom they already had a lot in common, rather that out-and-out atheists and agnostics.
I realize this is not true of all evangelicals, and I realize that many of those that appeared deceitful to me may have been more deceiving themselves then knowingly trying to deceive me. Still it left a bad taste. Especially when all the smiles and hugs and directed Bible studies ultimately led to Tony Alamo tracts and YEC drivel.
If Romney is the nominee, I’ll vote for him; he may be a RINO, but he won’t ruin this country like Obama is. What I don’t get is why Mormons seem obsessed with saying that they are Christians. Why can’t their religion stand on its own two feet? If you’re a Mormon, say so, but don’t say your a Christian. The same with Jehovah’s Witnesses; I met one today and after I said I was a Christian, she immediately said, “so am I.” Hey, if you want to believe in that religion, I can’t stop you, but don’t call yourself something you’re not.
He all have our methods.
If they believe in Christ as we do, "I ask them why do you need another BOOK?", "The Bible is just fine for me".
They can't answer that one either.
I see them everywhere, mostly loafing around on those bicycles, think they ever convert anyone? heehee.
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