Posted on 10/03/2011 9:24:36 AM PDT by jesus4life
If what you embrace is not articulated by these creeds then all of your blather about Sola Scriptura is just so much hyperbole.
Creed is from the Latin "Credo" meaning "I believe". The Nicene and Apostles Creeds are professions of faith that articulate what we embrace. This synthesis of faith was not made to accord with human opinions, but rather what was of the greatest importance was gathered from all the Scriptures, to present the one teaching of the faith in its entirety.
Catholics embrace one triune God. Mirroring this the Creed is divided into three parts. The first part speaks of God the father Almighty, the first divine Person and the wonderful work of creation. The next speaks of Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord, the second divine Person and the mystery of his redemption of men. The final part speaks of the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, the third divine Person, the origin and source of our sanctification."
Both Creeds and Scripture, themselves do not save, but the common ideas they articulate do.
The debate is rarely on the merits of Catholic teaching. The vast majority of the time is it non-Catholics misstating the teachings and Catholics explaining and correcting those misunderstandings. The typically go something like this:
Protestant: "Catholics believe "X"......
Catholic: No, we actually believe "Y".....
Protestant: Yes, you do and further more it is "Z"....
Catholic: No, you are wrong and here is the proof from the Catechism, the writings of the Early Church Fathers, Scripture, etc.
Protestant: Yeah, but Catholics worship Mary. Catholics are evil and are going to hell. The Pope is a Nazi. Here is a snippet from an anti-Catholic website that supports these contentions and I used to be a Cataholic and know its true.
Catholic: What are you smoking?
Religion Moderator: Do not make it personal.
Well I did laugh when reading your rendition of dialogue’s which occur now and then....it is commical. :)
Maybe that’s how we should all look at the dialogue when it goes that direction instead of taking it so personally...laughing at ones-self is healthy when it gets silly and confloggled.
But I don’t think the non-Catholics misstate catholic teachings for they generally use catholic literature and various other information available from catholic sources.
I think the problems arise when the scriptures are presented which clearly do not support catholic teachings... which then puts catholics in the position to defend those teachings... that defense generally comes fom traditions, authors of old, Popes and what they state, rather than using Gods word to support their defense....
...and The seldom times scripture is used the context is often lost and the defense is framed to support what one wants to belief rather than letting the scriptures determine what God wants us to believe. Then all kinds of “stuff”...streams of literature, quotes by this one and that..floods the threads and the real issue gets buried under all that debrie.
However when the topic remains at hand and debated there is not a better site on the net for dialogue. I understand “why” catholics belief as they do, even if I see that they are in error as the dialogue continues, it’s revealing much about the catholic faith and where they are coming from and why.
I would hope that if catholics could get off their “ant-this and that” and just look at what’s being stated and stay the course by fdefending their position with scripture things might go much smoother...but then this would be almost impossible until the issue of “traditions” is settled..and that is something catholics are “stuck” in...traditions.
I would advise you to take Gamaliel’s Counsel. Heresies have come and gone but Catholicism has been around for nearly 2000 years. If we are wrong nothing we can do will cause us to prevail. If we are right nothing you can do will cause us to fail or fade away.
"So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God.” - Acts 5:38-39
Oh, the RCC WILL prevail, as long as the prince of the power of the air prevails in this present evil world. But it will be short lived, in the time schedule of eternity. Rev. 17 assures us of that.
I don't think NL meant anything by that. He's probably just practicing his Darth Vader voice for his Halloween costume. :o)
Screaming about Catholics? May the Lord Jesus Christ, Savior of the world, bless you with peace, serenity, comfort, and the presence of the Holy Spirit to calm you.
Its not a numbers game or even a calendar thing. For the first 300 years being Christian was a capitol offense and the few Christians met in secret for the Mass and held true to the teachings of the Church. Its about the determination of Truth which was written before the beginning of time. If Catholic doctrine is wrong there is nothing Catholics can do to make it right. If it is right there is nothing you can do to make it wrong. The most shrill among you are those who do not trust in the truth.
I’m sorry you thought I was screaming. I’m perfectly calm, Judith Anne. I was capitalzing for emphasis. You’ll find no wailing or gnashing here.
Hmmm....Im surprised you didn’t realize that all caps is the equivalent of yelling, and going on and on and on really just adds to it.
Seriously, God bless you. I never took you for thin-skinned before now.
You don’t have to shout, I’m not blind!
No, when I’m yelling, you’ll know it. And God bless you, too. With all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.
COULD YOU PRINT IT BIGGER? I CAN'T HEAR VERY WELL...
Hay, Game Four is on, and the last time I looked the Rangers were up 1-0. Maybe they’ll limp to a win, tonight
I’m afraid to watch tonight. They were MASSACREED last night! And I WAS yelling when I said that..:) “limp” is a good word. lol!
Darn, I was trying for the Emperor Palpatine's English accent. ;o)
Thanks for this btw.
Well I do prefer to take my counsel from the Lord as our history together has shown He has never steered me wrong.
However the Lord did speak that there would be, as there was in His time, false teachers “within” the church itself and why He spoke of not relying on man...rather He encouraged us to search ‘the scriptures’ to see if what is being stated is of God or not...for there are indeed many deceivers in our world today, just as there was at that time.
Interesting that you speak of “we” which would suppose you’re speaking as the collective within the catholic faith and it’s leadership. Whereas it has seemed clear to me to me ‘we’ will ‘each’ be accountable to Christ as individuals for what we believe...right or wrong. Although there is warning to teachers about what they do teach, which seems to place a heavier accountability on them for what they instruct. Therefore they had better have Christ’s assurance that what they are teaching is the truth.
As for catholicism being around for 2000 years, that really doesn’t attest to if they are right or wrong...as Jesus did warn us the tares and the wheat will grow amidst one another....yet one or the other surely is wrong...both cannot be right...but they both will be until that day.
You see deceivers did go out “from among them”, or the “we” in that day...and they do so today as well....so they have “prevailed” until this time.
Which is why He left us a Church immunized against the heresies of men. That aside, from your comments am I to conclude that you reject Gamaliel’s Counsel?
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